Solid, workmanlike performance from the lads tonight. Once again, credit must go to the much maligned (in lunatic quarters) Saints pack which set the platform on which all else was built. Stand-out players were (in no particular order) - Lomax, Jones and Perry.

50+ points in bad conditions sounds like a decent performance. But Bradford must take the prize for worst team at Langtree Park this season. How tragic to see the Bulls, one of the greatest clubs in modern history and our most serious rival for nigh on a decade, reduced to what I can only describe as lower division standard.

But it's not just Bradford. Aside from Wigan (who whilst exceptional in this competition are only so in comparison to everyone else including us) I haven't watched one outstanding performance from an away team at Langtree Park. It's like we enjoyed ten to fifteen years of steady progression in standards since SL's inception which peaked three or so years ago. Since then the trend has been inexorably downward. I mean, it's saying something about the paucity of entertainment on the pitch when the arrival of Jamie Foster nearby signing autographs instilled more happiness among my two kids than the entire 80 minutes.

Fair comment, but reading the this forum after all 3 wigan defeats we were painted in the same picture as you are now describing Bradford.

We can only play what is in front of us, as did Wigan. But we never suffered the same score line.

I agree Wump. They need to take a long hard look at Super League and see what can be done to improve standards. For me, it's the age old debate about team number, we just cannot sustain 14 teams. I would personally go for 10 teams, play fewer games and expand the Exiles series to 3 games and have a proper, structured international game. Obviously this would depend on having a competent enough governing body to negotiate a TV deal the sport deserves, which we don't have at the moment. Losing the 4 teams would improve the squads pretty drastically and bring in much needed competition for places.

That is why the NRL is so strong. The senior players know that if they don't perform there will be a squad full of youngsters desperate to take their shirt. We don't have that in this country as the youngster playing the game aren't of a high enough standard as the sport doesn't have a strong enough grass roots set up to catch the best athletes.

I think we need to remember that the stricter overseas player regulations were always going to result in a gradual decline in standards for at least the short to medium term. Now that players with exemptions are starting to retire in numbers we're seeing that decline happen. It's not ideal, but I think it's a hit worth taking if we want to improve the way we produce young players across the competition.

Saddened! is right about the number of teams, though. Just before we went up to 14 teams I reckon we had the most competitive SL there has ever been. Again, this decision was made with a bigger picture in mind (basically to allow the introduction of Crusaders IIRC), but one which ultimately proved to be misguided. I reckon a move back down to 12 teams would make a significant difference to the standard of the league. If you pooled together the playing squads of the bottom four clubs I think you could put together two presentable sides.

That is why the NRL is so strong. The senior players know that if they don't perform there will be a squad full of youngsters desperate to take their shirt. We don't have that in this country as the youngster playing the game aren't of a high enough standard as the sport doesn't have a strong enough grass roots set up to catch the best athletes.'"

But then that raises the question of which teams you axe. All well and good spouting this from our position of strength but had SL come in the 80's and Wigan and Widnes where the dominate teams, would we be pushing this same policy with the possibility being that we could be one of the 4 teams to be chopped. Poor finances, delapidated stadium, no trophies for how many years??


When the likes of Widnes, Cas, Wakey, London, Salford, start pushing this line then I'll accept it as the the percived wisdom and not just fans of big clubs protecting their own interests.

We've never come close to matching the NRL and it's unlikely we ever will. But we've certainly been stronger. Hell, I can recall lower league sides which would have put up far greater resistance than Bradford tonight.

To be fair I bet some of their players are wondering when their next pay cheque will be coming in

I should add that I don't just mean the best lower league clubs over the last fifteen years were capable of beating the Bulls (after all, upsets happen all the time) - [ithey actually possessed better players. [/i

There simply are just not nearly enough British players of sufficient quality, most especially in the backs, to sustain a competitive 14 team league with the current salary cap at the moment. I couldn't believe we were playing a top 8 team tonight and I reckon Oldham gave us as much opposition. Even taking into account Bradford's current woes it's incredibly worrying that such a limited and one-dimensional Saints team can hack a fellow playoff contender to pieces with such contemptuous ease.

SL is in a shocking state talent wise.

There have always been plenty of pee poor games in Rugby League as the season enters mid town, it's just that they are easily forgettable.

I think the key is that these 2 teams in Leeds and Baradford are not performing at the moment and that makes the tournement feel a bit lacklustre

The key issue for me is that apart from Wigan and Saints (and to a lesser extent Leeds, their youth setup doesn't seem as good as it was) clubs do not seem to be able to produce any volume of quality home grown players.

I,ve been arguing over this on VT a couple of weeks ago about the lack of intensity in matches, last night was a prime example.
We are back to a 2 club league but of lower standard, i wonder if its possible for Leeds to play rubbish all season finish in 8th place and then go on to win the Grand Final.....the question is would the RFL change things or would they wait to see how bad we are in the World Cup.

I still enjoy my super league and watch all the games on sky, super league fulltime, boots n all and super league supermen but I also think the standard has dropped a hell of a lot over the years.

I wouldn't like to say why as its hard to put your finger on why but could it be:

The salary cap evening out super league but making the standard drop?

Could the the drop in the number on quota be effecting it?

Is there to many teams and not enough talent?

Thoughts?

Pretty much agree with all that.

Let's also not forget that SL moved away from the exciting spectacle it was becoming, with strictly-enforced 10m defensive lines and defending players having to get off the tackled player quickly. Yes, there were some cricket-score results (we still do...), but players were coming to terms with the changes. What it did do is make defences work hard and have to be top drawer, whilst skillful, entertaining players had space to work in. After SL abandoned this and allowed slowing of PTB's and shorter defence lines, defences had it too easy and it became more the 'big bloke' slugathon we have today.

Is Eddie Hemmings not claiming that 2012 is the best SL ever as he does year after year ?

A slower play the ball has certainly contributed to a lower standard, its given time for defences to get set, setting the majority of the game with forward drives and a kick at the end of the set.
We see more and more trys scored now from speculitive kicks at the expense of half back passing plays. Also the ascendency over the years of flat attacks means we lose passing space again with the half backs.
We get more games as slugathons with momentum provided by penalties courtesy of the inconsistent ref standard.
A top 8 play off has effect on standard, compare it to an examinatiom mark. Top 8 would give you a qualification mark of 40% a top 3 would be closer to 80%. Too much tinkering with the game from the RFL has brought us into the fashion of "correctness" where we don,t have failure in our game just different levels of success.

This is the first time since I've been watching that I've been utterly bored of Super League. I'm kind of wanting it to end already in the hope that next year could be better!

Surely, though, this forces the development of more creative halves over the longer term? Quick PTBs might lead to high scoring games, but it values the speed and awareness of a hooker over any other position. There's no need to use guile, clever plays etc to break a team down, just the ability to toss the ball quickly through your legs when you're half tackled.

As soon as a ref allows slower ptbs ( classically, at international level) or when teams slow it down by employing tactics intended just for that (see Wigan and Hudds of a season or two ago) a team is immediately rendered impotent.

IMO, it's a key reason why Aussie halves are infinitely better, there's no obsession there with having the tackled cleared within a nanosecond. Get the lines set, then let's see what you've got.m

I'd say it's actually a way to increase standards, though granted there will be a transitional period before the rewards come.

I,m not sure if we are going to develop half backs due to the manner we play in superleague with forward drives and a kick. Perhaps with more skilful forwards with good offloads to get half backs into potential gaps.
Can,t think of any English half backs that can unlock a tight defence, most of these in superleague are from the southern hemisphere. Thats proably why we have Widdop and Chase in our international side.
We will never catch up to NRL because our standard will be forever a transitional one. Its a pity we haven,t got 2 off Sam Tomkins operating at 6 and 7.

Something needs to be done and quickly to address this situation. I think 12 teams would be a good start, but still too many when you consider the lack of both number and quality of imports in the future, not to mention the amount of our own higer end players that are likely to be targetted by the big-money NRL. Personally I would move back to ten as soon as is legally possible.

The worst scenario is when our best players realise superleague is of such a low standard that they jump at the chance of going to OZ. We then have a situation where nearly all our international players are in the NRL. Our superleague then becomes a bi product for SKY and loses complete credability in the sporting world, whilst the RFL stick there head in the sand and every financial year announce we have made a profit.

Most of you may know that I'm not one for being critical of SL playing standards but I have to agree about quality when we talk about defences. Attacking wise the competition isn't a disaster but defensively we've gone backwards. Having never been a fan of increasing the number of teams in the competition to fourteen I'm loathe to suggest another issue that contributes more to the reduction in quality than this. There hasn't been enough talent in the UK to sustain so many clubs. Until this is tackled it makes it difficult to raise other issues because the size of the talent pool available is such a major contributor to the overall quality of the competition and as long as that is the case we're not giving ourselves the best opportunity to present the sport at the level that it deserves.

It will take coaches to realise that 5 drives and a kick doesn't win you trophies. The fact you can't think of any English halfbacks who can open up a defence is evidence, IMO, that we've neglected developing that skill because it hasn't been as important as quick ptb and scooting. When the quick ptb is removed from the game, other methods will need to be used and maybe we will see upcoming English halves concentrating on this element of their game rather than seeing yet more broken field support players with no organisational skills.

IMO, a Tomkins at 6 and 7 wouldn't work; he is the best broken field runner in the country but couldn't led a team around the field, orchestrate the line to open gaps etc.