[uRecord for KR [/u

Played: 2153
Won: 1597
Draw: 83
Lost: 473
pts for: 44900
pts against: 20958

This record is for all official matches including league, championship, play-offs,premierships,challenge cup,regal/jps trophy, lancs trophy, floodlit trophy, WCC, western division, yorkshire cup and the war emergency league.

Does anyone think our LP record will be as good/better? (Granted no one will be alive and possible wont last as long as KR did)

The data was taken from the St Helens miscellany which in fact is a very worthwhile read.

Rogues will still be around

The first Wigan v Saints derby was at Knowsley Road on November 16th 1895, the final score was 0-0 in front of 3000 species, not sure of the half-time score but I'll check with Bilko, it was the 12th game of the season for both teams, Saints had drawn 4 and Wigan had drawn 6, (five of which were scoreless). If I can find it I will sent Royce a video of the game,

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On March 26th 1896, at Frog Lane, 4000 saw Wigan beat Saints 10-0, right winger Flowers dropping a goal (worth 4 points then), Webster scored a try (3 points) and kicked a penalty (3 points)

At that time they still played with 15 a-side.

Oh, nearly forgot Rogues was there in his Knickerbockers

Were tried worth anything in 1895? Or were they still only worth a try at goal which was where the points came from?

My Grandfather played in that game, W Caveney.

We could have done with a forward like him last Friday,
he'd have sorted them Froggies out








Unfortunately I never knew him, but when I was a kid my uncle used to tell me tales about him, apparantly he used to do a bit of bare knuckle fighting as well



S57

Your grandfather played in both those games above,
He also played in the 2 derby league games in1896-7 season, Feb 6th Wigan 4 Saints 0, (J Walkden Drop goal). March 11th Saints 3 Wigan 0, (D Traynor try)

But he was not in the team that beat Wigan on April 3rd in the 3rd round of the first ever Challenge Cup year, the match was played at KR with 5000 attending, the final score was 11-0. Rogues did not attend as he was suffering from Pieonhisplateitis.
Saints went on to get beat by Batley in the Final at Headingley. Did your Grandfather play in the final??

His last recorded Derby match against the Pies was on Oct 14th 1899 at KR when Saints won 5-0.
You should be really proud being related to someone who pioneered the great game that it is.

He was reserve for the final, he only had a short career with Saints, I looked it up on the heritage site, but I don't think the picture they use on there is correct, he was only mid 20's when he played and the picture seems to be of an older player.

Obviously I'm proud of the connection but, if you go back to the era when the team was mainly drawn from local lads, then I would guess a lot of families in the town would have had a relative who has played at one time or another.

S57

There are not many who played in the first 2 Derby's

Would the sides have played each other as RFU teams pre 1895?

Indeed they did Sir, The first game was at Frog Lane, Wigan on Dec 3rd 1887, Wigan won by 3 tries ( Baldwin 1 and Slevin 2) and 9 minors, (a minor point was awarded to the attacking side when the defenders had to make the ball dead in their own goal area) Saints scored 1 Minor point.
The last game played under RU rules was at St Helens on April 25th 1895, Wigan won.
All in all they played each other 15 times under the auspices of RU rules, Wigan winning 10, Saints 2 with 3 draws.
In our defence there were some very dubious decisions, I'm sure that one of the games was referee'd by a Brian Rogues.


It would be very interesting to see the "Minor" rule brought back into todays game.
Just out of interest, the first Derby at KR was on September 20th 1890, the first at CP was on April 18th 1903.

Just for the record =#FF4000SAINTS won the first derby at CP by 5 points to 3. Halcyon days



"Phillistine" of "The Athletic News" wrote of the game, Quote
" Some 5000 spectators assembled in the sylvan retreat of Central Park, and though the umbrageous trees were not wearing their summer costumes, nor the pastoral beauties very evident, there was sunshine in the air, and the pearly stream that meanders over the rocky bed contrived to give the Park all the glamour of a rural resort. The sanguinary mountains and the arena of the succulent onion have no charms like this new home of the Wigan club"
Please note there is no mention of Pooles pies anywhere
Stevo, eat your heart out.