Saints loss for 2009.

Do you think it'll be similar for 2010?

Yes, and probably more for 2011.

Anyone with a little sense about what goes on at Saints know that this is going to the case until a couple of years into the new stadium.

We spend a small fortune on the costs of KR, make no money from the concession stands, and have very little provisions for attracting sponsors.

Mr Big's plan has always been to get us into the new ground and stop us relying upon his money to stay alive.

Not overly concerned now, but if these continue five years down the line, I will be.

Operating loss or net loss? I would assume we have a fair few exceptionals this year given the stadium work.

Just goes to show how desperately we need to move out of KR.

Nice little tax right off for mr Mac there !

It will be worse rogue. We must have taken on a fair few staff at the club to promote the new gaff, get the new gaff filled with corporate money etc etc... plenty of wages added to our out goings. PLus the suualy 100 tonne of cement required to prop up the auld girl ! And the 100000 litres of weed killer we need to buy.

Was hopeing we would make the CC Final this year just to help out the coffers , Wembley is always a nice helping had when it comes to the financials.

The revenue for the new gaff is goign well it seems, plenty season tickets being snapped up, most seem to be the 5 year option also. I have spent a fortune this year on goodies from the shop, and ST's, and that 1873 members club, and all the heritage bumf you can buy ...sheesh I wont count up what I spent to be honest, but I think its enough to wipe out the £861,810 debts

Bearing in mind he funds the losses, I'm sure he'd rather just pay the tax on a whopping profit!

Appreciate there will be big losses for at least 24-36 months but thankfully we've always had the asset with KR and we are lucky we do have a wealthy board in general to keep the club viable through directors loans, its no wonder we've not been spending on recruitment and just why they have pushed so hard to get the new stadium through and built.

It secures the clubs long term viablilty but we need the fans to back up the work done by turning up and coming back to ensure we even come close to long term profit.

This remember is for last season.

Its an applaing set of accounts

turnover down to just £4.8 million as well from £5 million

Wire by the way made a few thousand profit on turnover of £5.6 million while Leeds made nearly £3 million profit on turnover of £10.5 million
Hull also just about broke even on £5 million turnover.

Saints are clearly falling behind financially, and the new stadium cant come soon enough.

That's the OP ruled out then.

i meant he can use that to offset any profit his other business dealings make him, but yeah i'm sure he would rather be paying tax !

As a shareholder in the banking sector does this mean I cannot offset recent loses from those companies against my tax bill?

I don't think it works like that. I'd imagine that St Helens can off-set tax on future profits against loses previously incurred.

the losses will be recorded against the company, not Eamonn, unles he convert more losses to shares/debentures.

I would assume that the board as a whole are under pinning the losses against the sale of KR and loans structured to be paid back once the company is back in profit (ahem)

SO how do Leeds make so much dosh? Is it their bigger gates? Is it better corporate money?

No debts to service, bigger crowds, better corporate, year round use of facilities, bars, income from concessions to name but a few.

Those accounts I believe are not just for Leeds Rhinos, Adey Bull who sometimes posts on RL fans was checking on the accounts as filed with companies house.

I know, that's why I said year round use of facilities - it will be Leeds Rugby.

People keep laughing and say it will never happen, but pity help us the day Murdock pulls the plug with Sky seeing that we are going towards being a small parochial sport every week, which today's weekly rugby press pages seems to prove, a small M62 corridor and nothing else playing the game. Back to being part time players?

No wonder the national press are showing less and less interest, you read the weekly rugby letters pages and it is so depressing people who just want to look any further than their own team and then continually whine about other teams. It is time both rugby weekly newspapers set up a rule that if you send the letter to us then it must be exclusive or you are Banned! I am sure some people just want to bang their own drum.

I just Hope that the people who are putting real money into our great game will not listen to the continual complaining, we need people with real vision, not stick in the muds.

The accounts are for Leeds CF&A although "Leeds Rugby Ltd" is the 'public' name of the business. Leeds Rugby's core business is the Rhinos, having sold the cricket ground in 2005 and the Tykes in the same year (although Leeds Rugby took back 51% of Carnegie after Leeds Met cut their involvement back).

As mentioned, the club benefits massively from year-round use although it's not just on the sporting side. Headingley Stadium is open for business 365 days a year with the on-site hotel, university campus (plenty of pints sold in the Carnegie cafe) and corporate entertaining being huge earners for the club. For example, you'd have struggled to get your company's Christmas do booked into Headingley Stadium last year if you tried booking any later than early October, such was the demand. That is on top of strong ticket sales, sponsorship and corporate revenue.

It highlights how much clubs need their new grounds. I'm guessing that the new Saints stadium can be "open" for far much more than 15 rugby matches per year, unlike Knowsley Rd.

In fairness to RL, no sport which is under Murdoch's behest could maintain it's current expenditure.

According to the Big Chief, the club intends it to be open and used for seven days every week.

How much will the early exit turnstile cost in the away end for when Rogues lot come to town ?

There is company called LEEDS CRICKET FOOTBALL AND ATHLETIC COMPANY LIMITED registered at Companies House.
It's parent is a company called Leeds Rugby Ltd (co reg no: 0324738icon_cool.gif but it doesn't seem to trade and is owned by CADDICK GROUP PLC which is a construction company/ holding company owned by the Caddick and France Families.
I've had a quick look at the accounts for LEEDS CRICKET FOOTBALL AND ATHLETIC COMPANY LIMITED which at first sight look excellent especially with the benefit of a profit from the sale of an option the club had to buy back the ground freehold. it was sold to Yarkshire Cricket, producing a one off profit of £2.85M and enabling it to pay off loans of £6.5M.

The operating profit was stated as £720K against a loss for the year brfore of £324K.
However - and here is the rub - the accounts were only for the 10 months to 30/10/09 and not a full year as the club brought its year end accounting date forward two months. Normally this wouldn't matter but in a rugby club income in Nov and Dec is virtually nil whereas the costs for Nov and Dec are materially the same as any other month e.g. players wages have to be paid even when there is no income from sky or matchdays.

The net result is unknown and won't be known for another year when the 31/10/10 full year accounts are out but it is a sure thing that the figures are flattered greatly by the change in accounting period and it is by NO MEANS CERTAIN that the rhino's have actually made a true operating profit on a like for like basis.

Now then, Is anyone still awake after all that?

Pass me the razor blade!

True but Leeds have a relatively lucrative all-pay Boxing Day game plus the Winter months are better for conferences, they make a killing on Christmas parties etc and, more than anything, the new kit is launched pre-Christmas. I wouldn't be surprised if when it all nets out November/December between them aren't that much different to the average.

Suffice to say the 10 month turnover at £10.5m was essentially the same as last year's 12 month turnover of £10.6m, so whichever way you slice it, revenue is up.

At the end of he day Wire major shareholder (70+%), is a very,very rich young man who stands on the terraces with the fans. So I think we can safely say that Wire dont have, and wont have any money worries for a very long time.