With Kyle Eastmond coming through, are Saints going to want Matty back?

I followed Saints before the Cru came along to South Wales and stole my heart (and they play 5 minutes from me house!), and I always thought Matty would be Longy's true successor, but Kyle has been superb!

Any news up there on where he will be next season?

We'll happily keep him

There was a news article on here a few weeks back that said we were going to make a decision on his future by the end of June/July.

Personally, I cannot see him coming back.

Get the mops ready for Conroy's shed tears.

How is his arm doing? It would've been nice to see him play against us on Friday.
I think his fate as a Saints player rests solely on how Kyle plays, if he does well, we won't see him again i think. I actually thought he would make a good hooker, in the same mould as lulu at wigan, a 7 who suits 9 better.

He should be the replacement. I hope he is. I think he is better than Eastmond by far (at this stage).

on what evidence? I don't think we've seen enough of either to make a decision.
On a seperate note the have been rumours of Kyle's attitude, but Matty is a nice a guy as you'll ever meet. Not that thats as important as playing ability.

Yeh Matty is a quality guy, met him once or twice in Bridgend, but like you said that has nothing to do with his ability.

Personally, I think he's probably better than Eastmond at the moment, but Kyle's got a couple of years on him. Would be really disappointed to see him leave the Crusaders. I think he'd become a focal point for the team if he became a permanent signing.

the honest truth is that none of us know the club's plans for him. I would like to see him given another shot at saints, if he could make it playing wise, he could be a future captain.

The brutal truth is that he just isnt good enough for a team of St Helens calibre. He would go well at a second tier team.

Have we seen Eastmond play a full game at 7?
Have we seen Eastmond play a consistent run of games at 7?
Have we seen Eastmond play 7 against a top team?
Can Eastmond control a game?
Can he stay injury free?

etc.

Look, i'm not denying Eastmond is a very good prospect but as of yet, we have seen nothing IMO to suggest he can definately be the future number seven. He is being touted based on what? The fact that he has pace and is talked up by everybody.

The problem with Smith is that he's had the other things you mention, but he's never really done the one in bold.

Matty's not having a great season injurywise, though is he?
My point is we havn't seen enough of either of them to make a judgement.

Yes against Bradford was last full game he played.



No.



Eastmond has 24 first team appearances for Saints, to Smiths 17 for Saints
In addition Smith has 8 appearances for Celtic.
So its pretty safe to say that Eastmond has played against nearly as much top class opposition as Smith.



not yet, but then neither can Matty Smith. The ability to control a game comes with experience.



Can any player? At this stage he is no more injury prone than Matty Smith

How did he play? I didn't go.





That may be the case, but on how many of those occassions has he been used at 7 for the duration? I can't remember him playing or being introduced in a tight game at seven. When he has played, generally it has been later in games when defences are tired and he is kind of given a free reign to go and run wherever.

Smith has played against the top teams, not least in the play-off eliminator against Leeds where he should have made the team for the Final with his performance.



From the times i've seen Smith, both at Saints and particularly at Celtic he has been the one controlling the play. It speaks volumes that in the game against Warrington they were winning until he was injured and likewise the first win was in his first game back from injury.




I agree. Smith has had a few injuries, of which one was a freak injury where he was kicked after putting in a kick. My point in reference to Eastmond is not only does he get the odd "serious" (for want of a better word) injury but he seems to be like Gilly and end up limping virtually every game.

There more I think about it, the more I think we might have missed a trick not giving Matty a decent run out at hooker. If Moore can make the transition there's no reason preventing Matty. He could be lethal kicking long out of the dummy half.

What I find annoying about your argument is that you seem to be quick to point out that you've never seen Eastmond "control" a game from 7, when you obviously know (as you've pointed it out) that he hasn't had much of a chance in his favoured position. Smith got a good once when long was injured, but since then Kyle's not had the same chance in terms of a run of games without Long being about.

As for the bit in bold, go and watch the game from the JJB earlier in the year. Kyle's presence at 1st receiver really settled us down, his varied kicking game was superb, he offered a threat to the line when in possession, kicked a touchline conversion and then banged over a 40m drop goal. His introduction was one of the biggest factors in us winning.

I was on this train of thought while Moore was at Cas, although since he's pulled it round at the Giants, I think he's trumped Matty on this front.

Maybe, but unless Roby gets moved elsewhere (which I think would be a bad move) I doubt that we would ever need him there.

I also think that Moores size is an advantage for him at nine, as we will be missing beef in the defensive line when KC retires.

I just hope Moore lives up to the hype. In the Hudds v Hull KR and France v England matches he looked very impressive indeed, but in his most recent Hudds match against Cas he looked back to his old self - penalties and wayward passes. One thing he seems to lack is a cool head when the going is tough - not a good thing for a hooker. Hopefully that will come with experience though; he's certainly come on in leaps and bounds this year.

but very understanable given his age. I'm sure that could be easily sorted.

Ideally he'd accept a one-year extension so we could have a look at a more mature Smith at scrum half and hooker. But I very much doubt he'll accept such terms given his age and potential.

Difficult decision. My heart's saying we can afford to lose Smith but my head's saying it's going to bite us on the .

I accept that but then my point is, which i haven't seen answered anywhere, is how can Eastmond possibly be touted so uniformly by everybody as the next and future number seven (people have even suggested he could go on to England etc) when, even by your admission he hasn't really had much chance there?

That is my entire point. Eastmond is a great talent, that i'm not disputing, but compared to Smith for the seven shirt i don't see how he can be deemed ahead in that race. I liken him to Kevin Penny in the respect that he has pace and has used it occassionally but other than that, in the first team we have seen very little.





I agree actually, he played well when he came on?

Was that when Long was out and Wilkin was seven?

a lot of the England players seem to have been down on thier usual best a bit this weekend.

From my point of veiw, i'd say the following-
Eastmond's pace and running ability have made him able to slip into our team in a variety of positions, running at full back and even centre in a dominant team without too many problems. This seems, in some peoples' eyes, to be veiwed as a negetive - implying that, because he has pace, he won't have the passing and distributing skills a half back requires. Your familiar comment of "he's too much like Pryce" sticks in my mind.
However, it seems quite clear to me that while filling in Kyle looks like a decent kid with a bit of zip, it when he's had the (rare) opportunity to stand at 1st recever and play his familiar scrum half role that we have seen glimpses of true potential (and a lot of it).
Whilst I am a fan of Matty Smith's and hope he manages to find a good spot somewhere in SL, his game was just a little too pedestrian. An able deputy with a good long (or very long) kicking game, i just don't know if he's every going to be good enough for a top end club. Eastmond on the other hand seems to have pretty much everything Smith does (shaving a bit of distance of his kicking and admittedly Smith's a tougher defender) but with an added threat, pace and confidence.
When at Saints smith would often be pushed out the way by more senior players, thus causing him to be less involved than a 7 should be.
In Kyle, we see a lad that has the same sort of pace and running of a young Long or Burrow, but already has a set of kicking and passing that only started to appear in their games after they'd become established (international) half backs. Hopefully we're right, but even if we're not, I don't think Smith would be the answer to our prayers at 7.

A tad harsh?



Yup

Fair play, i do accept Eastmond is vert talented and i'd hope both could have a career at Saints. Be that with Eastmond at 7 and Smith at 9 or with Eastmond at 1 and Smith at 7.

As for me saying he is too similar to Pryce. That isn't a slight on him, Leon is immense but for me his play dipping in and out is similar to the way Leon plays. Would that work in a tough grinding game (like say the last two grand finals?). Maybe it would and Wilkin could step up and help. Only time will tell.