We need to raise our game. We were awful tonight (by our own high standards). Playing like that next week will only see us get raped.

All this in mind, just how poor are Salford.

Widnes must be going flipping mental.

True, we were bad.

We really need to be up for that lot next week or we will indeed get a shoeing.

Despite the fact that Salford have been consistently better than Widnes throughout the last few seasons ... and I assume you've not seen too many Widnes scores this season either??

So what we might be poor!!!But Quins and Cas Still managed to put more on the board against us than you lot




Oh and some cut that scruffy c$"t Longs hair and he might stand half a chance of seeing where he is kicking

I don't expect us to be firing on all cylinders with displays of precise attacking brilliance this early in the season.

Maybe not, but it would be nice for us to actually be doing the basics right for most of the time, which we aren't doing either. We are a tonking from Leeds kind of poor just now and when was the last time we were that poor?

I think a lot of Saints fans are in for a nasty surprise over the next season or two.

You think? Maybe next season, but this season we still have the core of the successful team and so at least should be playing the basics well and showing some flair in attack, surely? If Cunningham, Long and Gidley all go at the end of this season then I would expect a pretty significant dip unless we recruit in an astute (and possibly expensive) fashion. But I suppose I have been expecting our senior players, the core of the team to function as a unit with the youngsters learning from and blending with that. Obviously, injuries (and bans) don't help, and perhaps the slowing down of the ruck (to virtually standstill tonight) is confusing us given our trademark was fast PTBs. I don't think we should be looking this poor, though, in the fundamentals given the considerable experience we have out there. Or does that sound daft?

Whilst i agree with Carlos about some fans getting a nasty surprise i also want to raise a point based on some stats. I think we all tend to get a bit carried away at the start of a new season with how much early results and performances impact on the final outcome of the league come September. So here are a few summaries to put things into perspective:

[uFirst 5 Games of 2007[/u

Huddersfield Giants 10 - 18 Saints - WIN BY +8 POINTS
Saints 6 - 14 Harlequins - LOSS BY -8 POINTS
WT Wildcats 29 - 22 Saints - LOSS BY -7 POINTS
Saints 34 - 22 Bradford Bulls - WIN BY +12 POINTS
Warrington Wolves 12 - 48 Saints - WIN BY +36 POINTS

Wins = 3
Loses = 2
For = 128
Against = 87

(World Club Challenge game excluded)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[uFirst 5 games of 2008[/u

Hull Kingston Rovers 24 - 22 Saints - LOSS BY -2 POINTS
Saints 30 - 22 Warrington Wolves - WIN BY +8 POINTS
Bradford Bulls 16 - 22 Saints - WIN BY +4 POINTS
Saints 34 - 30 WT Wildcats - WIN BY +4 POINTS
Saints 30 - 29 Hull FC - WIN BY +1 POINT

Wins = 4
Loses = 1
For = 138
Against = 121

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[uFirst 5 games of 2009[/u

Saints 26 - 14 Warrington Wolves - WIN BY +12 POINTS
Huddersfield Giants 6 - 23 Saints - WIN BY +17 POINTS
Saints 19 - 20 Hull Kingston Rovers - LOSS BY -1 POINT
Celtic Crusaders 0 - 4 Saints - WIN BY +4 POINTS
Saints 38 - 12 Salford Reds - WIN BY +26 POINTS

Wins = 4
Loses = 1
For = 110
Against = 52

I hope this helps put things into perspective slightly. This season we've managed to a) Win as many games as last year and more than 2007. b) Do so by a higher points difference on average. And c) Whilst not scoring quite as many, have conceded far fewer points than the previous two years in which we have gone on to Lift 2 out of the three domestic trophies on offer.

I would agree, anyone seeing just the scoreline would think that we were fantastic but we were far from it.

Youre no gunna streak across the pitch, are you?

I think we need to get a sense of proportion here...

1 - 3 first line players missing last night who should play next week - that means 3 of the kids won't.
2 - the things that are annoying everybody (me included) are ALL correctable catch pass complete kick etc..
3 - It would be nice if we had played the same team for any period of time.
4 - Those kids are playing long minutes which will benefit us in the long term - the more experience they get now the better.
5 - WE WON 7 tries to 2
6 - we had another 2 tries disallowed last night, along with the 5 or 6 last week and the 3 against HKR would suggest we are quite strong attacking wise.
7 - defensively we are as strong (if not stronger than any other team) we just need to STOP giving teams possession in our 20 especially next week.
8 - It's round 5!!

Lets see at the end of the season what happens?

There are 3 factors effecting our play so far this season.

1) We are in a transition phase this season, by blooding our young players, Mick Potter was signed up to do this task, so far in the last 4 games we have played a lot of youth. Last night there were 5 young players on the field, if 2 out of the 5 develop into superleague standard then we are in a better position for the future. Eastmond, Wheeler, Armstrong, Nixon, Foster and Emmitt look as though they have the potential. While most other clubs are going for the short term overseas fix.

2) Lack of a left centre, this is a gamble the chairman has taken, at the moment its a risk because the abscence of Meli means we look weak on that side. But come 2010 Jamie Lyon will definitely be back.

3) Reffing the game, we have seemed to adopted the Aussie wrestling game at the tackle play the ball. This has the biggest effect on Saints this season who rely on 3 to 4 second play the balls to create open fast rugby.
But once we get the faster hard grounds I can see Saints being more predominant and the scrappy wins will replaced by bigger win margins.

But:

Edged past an awful Warrington side.
Played well at Hudds but the scoreline flattered you.
Beaten by KR.
Beat Celtic by 4
Thrashed a woeful Salford team.

Next week's a very big game.
If we go 4 points clear, it'll be tough for you to claw it back like last year looking at the lack of depth in your squad. But a win for you, and it'll be all in the balance.

You've seen a lot of our games for a leeds fan?

consider then on the other hand

edged past Celtic playing their first ever SL game with NO warm ups
Played well aagainst Wakefields acadamy
Lucky at HKR with interesting video ref decisions
SLAUGHTERED by Manley
Edged past an awful Warrington side
Thrashed a woeful Wigan team

Hang on you said all this same time last year, we give you a 6 point start last year. Ade Gardner quoted in the press you will be caught, which happened. So going behind by 4 points is even less of a challenge at the moment.

If (big if) we beat leeds on friday we are 2 points behind with a game in hand, hardly time to panic

Which table you looking at mate?

Lets be quite honest here. There were a number of youth players in the side last night that wouldnt get in the normal 17 if everybody was fit and healthy. Wheeler, Dixon, Ashurst and Emmit are players for the future and playing in the games against the likes of Salford will only aid there development. Some people on this board expect wonder performances everyweek and for this year at least this isnt going to happen due to the sheer lack of strength in depth. Personally I would get used to this as its going to become a regular thing until these young players get to the standard that we have played over the last few years. Some people on this board really do need to get real and dont expect world class performances and world class tries everyweek.

As expected right now really. Leeds top slightly ahead of Saints. I expect these 2 to pull away further as the season goes on.

I personal opinion is it will only be leeds pulling away. Leeds had a few injuries yesterday and put on a very good performance against Wigan and with no reconised hooker.

BORING. Salford are a non entity, the RFL should be ashamed they allowed them back in the big time. Its time to wind the club up and bring back BARLA and stick em in the BARLA league. Total nothing club, I hate games against them as they make you think about your life, about TAKING your own life that is.

Flick off salford and dissapear into a black hole, somewhere near calcutta.
BORED pointless game.

Wigan are completely shocking though. I dont read too much into performances this early, its just about results.

Salford were poor last night but to start thinking off taking ur own life is abit drastic!