This guy has been calling for a 7 all season. We sign one from the NRL and he's not even played for us but yet he cracks under pressure. Your post isn't pointing out anything we don't already know. As for Roby not playing well as you claim, he has hardly played all season. If you have ever played sport at any level you will realise a tired body leads to a tired mind. Yes his decisions weren't perfect as he was ring rusty. Sia didn't break a tackle all night as he was not match fit.

You're very good at criticising the team and how they play but, very vague on your solutions to the problems

You say we were ultimately poor and go on to praise how good Sinfield and Burrow were, but they scored the same amount of tries as us and had more territory than us. So where Leeds poor offensively aswell?

Considering we have no half backs and a back rower has had to fill in all season I thought we did pretty well to be honest. It was an intense game (it would've been fitting of a Grand Final it was that good) where defences were strong, it wasn't really the kind of night where the attacks shine.

thought your lads played really well, great game

I thought it was a good game, Leeds had more chances, more territory, but Saints defence held well. In saying that I didnt think either would go on to win the SL this year.

I'm not sure why. He's a decent defender, can take a high ball and is much more dangerous in attack than Wellens. The fact that he gains us an extra 20-30m on pretty much every kick return also takes pressure off the rest of the team.

The swap was a no brainer for me.

Who are these magic fix all halfbacks that are off contract?

Yes, I'd say so. They had the lions share of the possession and territory throughout the game. At half time they'd had 20 more play the balls than us and the graphic Clarke does which does where those play the balls happened were telling. We had little ball outside of our own half and only 2 in the opposition 10m. I think by comparison they'd had 17 in ours. It was a combination of a remarkable defensive performance and a lack of clinical execution from Leeds. They put too much ball down and didn't take anywhere near enough advantage of how on top they were throughout the game. The game was the equivalent of a penalty shootout win for a big side in football playing against a minnow, dominating the game but unable to score.



That's why I put my opening line. Given what we are, it wasn't a bad performance, it was a brave fall onto the sword if you will. It is however completely the club's fault that we went into the season with that squad and that shouldn't be forgotten because of the upturn in form towards the end of the season. A lot of mistakes were made before the season even started and Brown can't come out of it with a completely positive scorecard either. Whilst he has to a degree steadied a ship he unbalanced, he has left the side looking pretty shambolic with the ball in big games. Signing Luke Walsh is a positive move, but it isn't going to solve all our problems in one go. He absolutely MUST have a partner next season and his partner ABSOLUTELY CANNOT have the surname Wheeler, Hohaia or Wellens.

Rangi Chase, Sam Hopkins, Jacob Miller have all moved clubs. All those would have been good enough. The new stand off doesn't have to be a world class player either. They just have to be an established halfback with a bit of pace or an eye for a pass, someone to take the playmaking pressure off Walsh.

I often think this saddo is a pi%s taking wiginer who knows how to use the spell checker.

So you are saying Sam Hopkins is a good enough stand-off to play for Saints and we should have signed him?
You aren't even aware that he is a prop forward, are you.

Rangi Chase - not off contract, after spending 800k on cladding I don't think it's really fair to ask the club to spend more on playing roster, maybe in a couple of years after initial overheads etc and further to that he asked for a massive salary which would cause a massive imbalance in player roster.

Jacob Miller - firstly quota, secondly because he's set the world alight with his attacking at hull? He's taken a lot of slack from the hull fans (to be fair who hasn't) and may well prove over the next 5 years to develop into a decent player, but he's not at the moment, one of the reasons why hulls attack is a major complaint for their fans - and if we want a project, stick Yates in the team or whoever else is in the youth set up - surely developing our own, British players would make more sense?

Sam Hopkins - untried untested at super league level - and you want to throw him straight into the 6 ? We may of been in for him and he chose Wigan and would of been preferable to miller but again is a another project and whilst he may or may not have more "potential" than players already here but, for example, at Wigan he's behind green and smith and will be able to develop in his own time, if we had of signed him as starting 6 you'd of been saying he can't go straight into the Wigan team why can he go straight in ours

And this is all irrespective, as these are all missed out on people - I asked who is the AVAILABLE signings - not who could we of signed at some point in the past (that Lockyer player would of been great

) who would improve on the team?

Fo rthe record, I agree to an extent a 6 would be good, lance for me is much better interchanging with Roby at hooker. But out of everyone available for the position (unless a surprise appears in the World Cup, who is magically not quota) I can't see anyone I would rather have then wheeler (for 20 minutes) and Wilkin - not ideal certainly but better than making a signing for the sake of a signing!

Sam Hopkins isn't a half back.
He wears the 8 shirt at Leigh and has played most of this season at 13.
We're told he's around 6'3" and 17st which fits the bill well for a SL forward.

Also I disagree with the OP. Don't know where the "Brave" comes from, Saints were excellent last night and should have won.
Watkins dropped the ball and the player gave himself up before the decision was made. If he felt he had scored he have been all smiles and high fived all round. He didn't, his face looked miserable and he shook his head as if he knew he'd dropped the thing! Field position for Leeds would have been helped by the fact Saints didn't get a penalty in the game until 50 mins against Leeds five.

Someone should have had a go kicking at goal from the half way line. McRae said Turner would have the distance, true or not I don't know.
Also a complete mess of the drop goal attempt. Chances there which have to be taken in knock out rugby.
Great game and both teams gave their all.
Whoever had won surely Smith would chose for the club call.
Both teams looked exhausted and recovery in 6 days seems a big ask.

Sam Hopkins is a prop or loose forward.

Will you guys not go back in for O'Brien? He wont get many gamescat Wire and I reckon they'd let him go for a reasonable fee.

I thought you played well last night but I never seriously thought you could win the GF. There are too many weaknesses in this current Saints side but that will change next year. Your back will be miles better, your backline has plenty of pace and if Walsh can take control the side looks very well balanced.

They say that about us EVERY season...

He'd still be better than Hohaia. I meant Sneyd from Salford.

Sneyd was part of the Chase deal, so no chance there either.

Has any other Super League side in the history of the competition ever gone two seasons without two halfbacks in their squad? I doubt they have to be honest.

We have Wheeler and Walsh, Lance was signed as a halfback, Yates is on duel reg (is he staying?) etc etc so I count more than 2

and that's before you get to Wilkin whose done a competent job in difficult circumstances this year!

You never answered the question who is available that you would want in the team? I can link you to off contract if you need some inspiration!

The game reminded me of some of the closer grand finals against Leeds. If we were struggling to get out of our 20 we would start to panic and try to play around Leeds, usually with disastrous results. As in those grand finals, Leeds played with patience, safe in the knowledge that we would be the first team to depart from their game plan.

The fact that we nearly won the game despite this is testament to the sheer courage with which we played. With Walsh to add a bit of composure and kick one or two goals we would probably have done it, not to mention the much stronger pack we'll have next year.

Regarding individual performances, I thought Josh Jones was sensational. It's crazy that he's only 20. Manu was our most dangerous attacker, but contributed to the panic at times. I also thought Jordan Turner was excellent.

Lomax was frustrating at times when returning deep kicks; he tended to amble up and wait for support rather than getting his head down and running for vital yards. Hohaia was gutsy but isn't a stand off in a million years. 99% of the time he just catches the ball deep and ships it on without taking a single step forward. He doesn't interest any defenders at all, which means the players outside him are always faced with a fully organised edge defence.

But, as people have said, it was a brave performance, and one which the players can be proud of.

Utterly clueless numptie....have you any idea at all about the game?

Er! No he hasn't.

You know, I felt the same after the game. The amount of unforced errors we made were ridiculous. We were throwing interceptions and making daft errors, e.g. Turner messing up the PTB etc..

Wilkin's kicking game was superb and I think that was helping us a lot. I don't think we had the go-forward that we should have had and that was summed up by the amount of PTBs they had in our half - I've only watched the first half back on Sky and at HT it was something like 42-12 to them in terms of that stat. Probably because our props were fecked considering that Walmsley only had one stint and we had Wello taking up another spot.

Effort was bang on though and we really should have won the game after we dragged ourselves back level.

Defence was great, once again, and I think Brown should take a lot of credit for that. We really have improved A LOT as the season progressed. That was the reason it was only 4-0 at HT. If it wasn't as good as it was, considering the amount of possession and territory they had, we would have been completely out of the game.

Well, without reading everyone's replies, I think part of your reaction is correct, but my reasoning is focussed of slightly different areas.

There was no shortage of commitment on Friday. That's something that we haven't been able to say all year. I do feel like Brown has treated this year as an experiment and the vibe rubbed of on many of the players, who only got serious towards the end of the year.

Neither team played expansively on Friday, possibly due to the nature of the fixture, but we did defend very well - especially the large number of normally deadly high kicks to the wingers.
What Leeds have in Danny McgGuire (probably moreso than any other half back in the league IMO) is a player who looks up and plays what he sees. Our makeshift halfs are a way from doing this, and we do lack that killer play when we're on their line. Walsh should help fix this. Leeds seem to rush up out wide, which stunted our attack, but a smart playmaker should be able to turn this to our advantage (we've seen Watkins caught out a number of times this year using this defensive tactic).

Wilkin kicked for territory ably, but too often he was kicking for yards when on the return set, Sinfield was bombing our back three. This was because Leeds were generally making more yards than us - part of that will be because we still struggle to match the line speed of other big teams. We have since our previous coach took charge. This was compounded by our front rows - LMS played well, but TP looks spent, Laffranchi is generally ineffective, I assume Walmsley is not fully fit by the seemingly low minutes played and Clough got left on the bench until too late in the game (IMO). Our fresh front row set up next year should help.

Saddened questioned the inclusion of Paul Wellens and its got to the stage where we all surely agree. Another year for him would be a mistake for the club.
But worse than Wellens is Hohaia. Whilst he can look dangerous if he's got a sniff or is presented with a gap, he is a hopeless halfback. Any ball that goes through him is turned lateral and slowed right down. He needs to vacate the halfback shirt. He was also the victim of Leeds most successful tactic of having Ablett run at him.

Brown has come good towards the end of the season, but there's still a few worrying points - the inclusion of Wellens despite him being little use, leaving Clough out the game when our other front rows were not making an impact, lack of a strong attacking stucture (understandable perhaps, with out half back issues) the strong rumours of renewals for Boof and Gardner (they've gone quiet recently) and the whispers that Wilkin is definitely moving back to the back year despite us not having a new 6 and him not being as good as our other backrows.

And these are the important points for me, I for one would not be upset if we ran with Wilkin at 6 next to Walsh, he's a better halfback than lance for sure! And as said we have better back rowers , I also suspect that with the new props coming in that if boofs extension is confirmed, he'll be in the back row next year. Jones could go to centre, but that would mean putting Manu in the second row, not ideal for me. Out of manu, jones, Sia, boof, and flash who would put Wilkin in that back row?
As for Ade, surely the form of swift has finally put paid to his extension, would he get a game in front of swift or makinson? And Percival could easily cover injuries there.
And then there's Wello. He literally has no place in the team. He's even behind Wilkin for a back row spot and is just wasting a bench spot. Time to say goodbye

Saints were excellent. They made the breaks but Leeds scramble defence was simply excellent.

Two visits into the Leeds 20 in the entire first half showed how tight they were.

Against any other side, one that had two unusable players for 40 mins, Saints would have won.

Champions find a way to win.