I'll spare you the full lesson (there's plenty of books on economics down the library if you want to find out more), but to precis: it's what we learned people call SUPPLY AND DEMAND. If you want to win things in SL you have to pay big money for 3/4s that would have been unremarkable mid-table fodder worth a quarter of the amount 10 years ago, because there's nothing better about right now. If we go for the "value for money" alternative then we will be playing against teams who haven't, and whose slightly above average backs will be skinning our VFM ones on a regular basis. We will indeed then end up capable of nothing but the utter mediocrity that all the clueless kneejerk numpties think us already incapable of anything else but. In the land of the below average centre, the slightly above average centre is king. Deal with it.

And you can carry on with the unfounded BS if you like, but Shenton, when fit and on form and getting ball, is far batter than 95% of the centres in the league right now. Deal with that too.

slighty better than average on a test international's salary.

regardless of the quality of other similar options available, they will be paid less than Shenton.

If the club are looking to ship him out, they obviously don't feel he's worth the money being paid to him.

You think a player you've classed as "above average" is in the top 5% of centres in the league? Top 50% maybe

I do think there's a good centre in there, we're just not getting it out.
I wouldn't be suprised to see him go well at his next club.

And good luck to him if he does, I don't hate the guy, but neither do I rate the guy.

Less expectation and pressure?

His injury has not helped him, but he's just not improved on where he was last year. His confidence is shot but there is nowhere for him to hide playing for a team like Saints. Some players can step up to big clubs, some can't. Maybe he's one that can't?

If we are letting him go, then clearly Brown is unconvinced of his ability.

Brown and a few thousand others. He has got at least one fan; but would anybody really want Northampton saint on his side.

All this spent force stuff. We have to realise too that we are only 5 points off the top of the league. Could be 3 off 2nd place by the end of the weekend. I know Leeds is not a gimmie game, but a win against Leeds will certainly mean we are still in with a decent shout of top 4.

very true, and without a coach as well, not too bad

Aye I've had a week of being down now it's time to get up to my normal optomistic heights. Saints for the GF.

I've told you before about going through my bins... Christ man, but you're obsessed... Go and stalk some other poor sap now please - I'm just bored of your utter inanity now.

No, no, no... You're getting this all wrong... We're the worst team in the world, ever, and are going to struggle to make the top 8 for the next 30,000 years. The kneejerk numpties like Ex1 say so after all. We only become the greatest side ever that is going to majestically dominate SL for the rest of eternity [u[iafter[/i[/u the next win we get against a top side, not before.... I thought you moderators had to be trained in dealing with this kind of clueless Saints' fan blow-in-the-wind opinion swing before being inducted?

Nah

Little bit worrying that we are pinning all our hopes for future success on Nathan Brown, who appears to have no more idea than rush on how to beat the goons

What's more concerning to me is that every time they play a pressure game they bottle it. I hope that is as a result of the players and not the coach.

Yes indeedy. He has proven that he can take an average side and make them competitive, he now has a different challenge in taking a good side and turning them into trophy winners, which is an altogether different skill. I suspect that is why he hasn't landed an nrl job yet. Saints will be make or break for his career aspirations. Bring silverware back to saints and any job will be open to him, fail, and Salford beckons.

Hudds have beaten Wigan several times under Brown, including this season. I loved some of the inventive stuff they were playing in the first half.

The 'pressure' comment may be valid (although having lost 5 GFs on the spin, we can't really get a lot worse in that respect!) but what Brown has done, in pressure games like semi finals and more generally in the league, is have Giants punch significantly above their weight. If he can get us punching above ours, we have every chance of silverware.

He has less genuine quality at his disposal at Huddersfield than at Saints.

For all we knock Saints the reality is that we gave Wigan a tougher game than Huddersfield did.

Remember that according to many Saints fans, all our players are rubbish and not fit to wear the shirt.

I think we need therefore put things into a bit of perspective.

The reality is that Wigan at present are playing very well as a unit.

We all thought Kong would turn out to be Donkey Kong but at present he looks more like the Great Ape.
Tactically and Motivationally he appears to have a lot going for him. He has made the odd mistake eg:Widnes, but lets remember is learning what it is to be a first team coach. He should therefore only get better as a coach.
That to me is a big worry. If Wayne turns out to be a genuine top line coach then Wigan will be in for a sustained period of success, as he will give them the coaching holy grail of quality and stability.

Brown's working with diamonds that he's polished himself at Huddersfield. If he can turn Crabtree, Robinson, Brown and Brough into fringe internationals he should be able to do something with our kiddies.

But that's the point really isn't it? We want a coach who can kick us one step beyond. I believe Simmons would have done it last season but for the injury to Shenton and the resulting necessity of relying upon our most unreliable player ever, ie Meli, but he's now gone and so my concern is whether Brown can put the fire back into us or whether we are going to go even softer under him, given how Hudds are in those pressure scenarios.

Agreed.

I think the big difference is that in those pressure games, Hudds are generally significantly weaker on paper. Defeat isn't evidence of them bottling it or failing to deal with pressure, it's more likely a case of the better team winning.

Brown clearly has previous on getting a team to perform above their capabilities. That'll do for me.

Nice Monkey Metaphore!!!

We've had a week of knocking Saints, but then everything is relative. I think defensively we are pretty decent. We have a few soft bits around the edges, but the team are able to tighten these up even within a match.

We have knocked Saints, but I think everything is relative, most agree that we have players that can attack against lower league teams, through pure strength and professionalism on the back of good play by Roby. That's fair enough. I think the critisism of Saints is related more to our lack of penatration verses Wigan. It exposes deficiencies in the team that Roby and the pack cannot handle alone.

I agree with much that's been said about the "knockers" they have gone a bit overboard with the criticism of your team, mainly due I think, to the two defeats by Wigan. Fact, I think, the team is not as good as in pass seasons, but in saying that it would be hard to keep to that standard year after year, and when you look at the changes, players in, players out and the mix of the young ones it is a big ask to keep up to past standards. For me the team is in a faults position in the SL, you are better than that, but alot must be down to a lack of self belief (something the oz has tons of) and no matter what is said to the tv cameras, it's what's in your mind that counts. It shows on the field in the big games, you can't expect Roby, (who I don't like to say, but is, the best hooker in the world, bar none) and Paul Wellens, a good player coming to the twilight of his career, to hold the team together. others must take more responsibility for whats happening and, with ideas. In big games sometimes Saints seem lost, they have guts and heart, but the fear of getting it wrong is in the minds of some. Having said that I do think at times Hohaia looks like a lost sheep.. Good luck for the rest of the season, but not too much, after all I am a Pie!.