No one beats old Father Time. If Peacock could he wouldn't be retiring.

True, but they're hardly carrying him like we're carrying one or two of ours. He's leading from the front and he could still go out with a challenge cup and league winners medal yet.

He's being ALLOWED to lead from the front. Whereas Leeds have worked hard to execute a tactical plan which keeps the ball in play for as much as possible - thus tiring out our big guys we really have done very little to pick apart the weaknesses in their side.

We know they exist because other sides have exploited them (Warrington being the most obvious example). It's saying something when our forwards are tiring quicker than guys who are close to TEN YEARS older than them.

I certainly think we've shown their forwards far too much respect. We have a big and powerful pack which really should be concentrating on smashing the opposition on or behind the advantage line. Standing back and allowing guys like Peacock to run onto our defensive line is crazy. We should be making them FEEL their age.

Why Walsh wasn't kicking for territory instead of down Hardaker's throat is a complete mystery.

Our pack is very big like you say but 3 times this season against Leeds they've failed to overawe them. That's no coincidence unfortunately.

It's difficult to win week in week out in SL with injuries, form etc I'm not convinced that Wire have their number. In a Play off game or a final, Leeds would tear them a new one.

I'm not downbeat though mate. They're an ageing team and yet we've got Walmsley, Savelio and a few other who will be around for a long time yet

Our pack has come secound best many times this year and isn't as good as some make it out to be. It's a good pack but by no means what some say it is. We've struggled to get out of our own half Many times this year.

I agree. They're a match for any pack in the league but my no means superior.

Hang on a second. Our pack hardly struggled either to make yards or stop yards beyond the first twenty last night. Walmsley, Vea and Savelio were as good as any forward on the pitch.

Even in the previous two defeats we had more than enough firepower in midfield to contain Leeds' pack. The missing link in both games was a defensive strategy which put bodies between Leeds' ball carriers and their close support, an intelligent kicking game and bringing the weight of our younger forwards to bear on some of their older guys.

If we don't already know by now that Leeds clearly feel that they NEED to score early and are prepared to take risks doing so then we really aren't very smart.

No team can maintain such a pace beyond twenty minutes. We're not facing some kind of supernatural force. Hit the Leeds ball carriers. Hit them hard with three men who are all looking to jar the ball loose. Be alert for spilled ball and be the first to sweep it up. Going forward, play the game at OUR pace - not theirs. Ping the ball over the tram lines. Keep turning them round. For heaven's sake - I shouldn't need to explain basic strategy. Especially given that we've used similar tactics in the past.

You're right, I'm sure the saints players and coaching staff don't realise. Just a shame the game isn't played out on paper/Internet message board.

Momentum is a killer, once it's lost its very difficult to get back and even if you do playing to your potential after energy sapping phases is tough going. Knowing what a team want to do to you is one thing, preventing it is another. Sound like cunningham with no credit to the quality of the opposition

The standard of the opposition is of no concern to me. The team exists to perform one task - which is to beat whatever is put in front of it. If Leeds can devise a strategy which exploits Saints' weaknesses whilst playing to their strengths there is no reason Saints can't do similarly.

Admittedly we aren't playing with anything like a full compliment. But they had sufficient reserves to do the job yesterday.

And clearly SOMEONE at the club DOESN'T realise the patently obvious. Even if our big forward pack wasn't bothered by Leeds' keeping the ball in play as much as possible in the first twenty minutes it still makes absolutely no sense targeting the safest pair of hands under the high ball in SL with bombs from the first minute to the last.

If ANYONE can explain why this was a sound strategy I'd love to know.

Clear from your posts you've not the first clue about the game from a playing or coaching perspective as it's played out in reality. I guess you're one of these people who continually berates the team from the terraces 'shouting advice'. If you want to know why things don't always go well, ask your self if you're the best at your job every day.

I take it you can't explain the reason for Saints' inexplicable kicking strategy yesterday, either.





Unsurprising that you guess wrong, then. Has no one told you yet that I am one of the most infuriatingly supportive posters on this site whose [i"Rose Tinted Specs"[/i are now bordering upon a registered trade mark?





I am the best at my job. And I take pride in that fact.

Watching the other Semi Final today Saints should break the bank for Hull KR's advisors (scouts) i'd absolutely love us sign Albert Kelly and Ken Sio who are both still very young.

I'm not sure about Kelly. There doesn't seem to be anything between Hollywood or bust when I'm watching him. For me too many aspiring scrum halves make the mistake of concentrating on their strengths instead of eliminating their weaknesses.

Sean Long is a great example of someone who could easily have fallen back on the obvious talents he possessed at a young age (most notably his blistering acceleration and eye for a gap) but instead chose to do the hard thing and attack the many glaring weaknesses he had too.

When you consider he had very little kicking ability or organisational skills at Wigan it's a testament to his professionalism that he addressed those issues to such an extent he became the player he did.

The point here is - it is easy to say just do this just do that. Just because your forwards might be younger they may actually lack quality and the ability to do what you are suggesting. If you look at your pack only Roby is a proven "real deal". Perhaps you miss placed belief in their ability to carry out your simple (sic)
tactics.

Your idea that if you stick to game plan the opposition will indeed capitulate is arrogant beyond belief.

I've been to all 3 games so far this season between Saints and Leeds, and I've got to say we have looked best in every department. Would I swap the Leeds pack for the Saints forwards, would I hell. A lot of Saints fans forget we let Amor go because he wasn't good enough for Leeds, and with the arrival of Galloway, Garbutt, Mullaney for next season I don't see us having anything to worry about. Get Steve Ward fit to replace JJB for the 8's, and I'd be happy to play you and your "big" pack for a place at Old Trafford.

I agree. Some posters on here don't live in the real world. Every week they bamg on about how good our pack is but it getting beat most weeks now. If any team pins us back in our own 20m zone we struggle big time to get out which results in walsh having to kick deep in our own half which is very hard.

Alex Walmsley and James Roby are very consistent. Those two are virtually top class every week and Imo the best hooker and prop in super league. The others are hit and miss.

All but a handful of your side were there last season. Don't recall you even making the Grand Final. Must have been bad luck, eh?









All the form in the world means nothing unless you win the big banana. And there's a long, long way to go yet.

Perhaps my "belief" is based on the fact that St. Helens - not Leeds - are the reigning Super League Champions. In case you have forgotten, this club played far WORSE last season and yet still triumphed. I think it tells us something rather important about what this group of players is capable of when push comes to shove.



It's also the essence of coaching. We are not in control of the opposition so there's no point thinking about it. Like many Leeds fans you still haven't grasped a rather obvious point: three victories and all the form in the competition so far has secured you precisely ZERO trophies. Nor will such count for a single point in the Grand Final.

If you get there.

Because you didn't last season.

Perhaps you should be thinking a little more about winning the title before you carry it off?

Whilst true our three victories over Saints haven't won us anything in 2015 yet......you bragging about Saints winning the Grand Final LAST YEAR means even less in the context of who'll win anything this year.

Sadly for you, part of the unadulterated [uJOY[/u of actually winning the Grand Final is you can justifiably refer to yourselves as [uTHE CHAMPION TEAM[/u until someone takes the trophy away from you.

Read it and weep, suckers.

You can refer to yourself as the champion team, doesn't mean you'll retain it in 2015 which is kind of the argument you were making towards Leeds' wins over Saints not winning them anything in 2015. But feel free to keep embarrassing yourself.

Also you did win the Grand Final when push came to shove......that push and shove that lead to a few punches from Flower. Being gifted a GF by the opposition prop is realistically Saints level. What last year showed us is that Saints will need their rivals to get a man sent off for Saints to win anything.

Also you don't have to explain the joy of winning a Grand Final to a Leeds fan

2007 - Leeds 33 Saints 6
2008 - Leeds 24 Saints 16
2009 - Leeds 18 Saints 10
2011 - Leeds 32 Saints 16

:460vmpg2

[fx

I don't usually get involved in this kind of thing,I almost said "wait for it now" when you made your earlier statement.good old Printer

Who?

The Printer the person you have been debating with.A prolific poster on Southstander and elsewhere on rlfans