That's certainly one of the big things Wane has worked on. For the last couple of years we pretty much ran the same patterns over and over again, to an extent where they were became predictable.
But under Wane we've changed a few things, first of all by involving more players in the moves and having forwards passing before contact onto other forwards, plus not every single attack revolves around Sam any more meaning the opposition can't just flood the side he's attacking, with defenders.

When I watched the highlights of Warrington there really is a big contrast in style. Nearly everything from them begins with an offload or two, sucking the opposition defense in, and then whipping it out wide. It looks far more off the cuff stuff, than the structured play that Wigan employ.

And who knocked you out of the CC, and then want to win the final?

But as Wigan fans often used to say (along with Wire fans and Leeds fans and, probably fans of every other club bar Saints), the CC is just a tinpot cup isn't it? It's the Grand Final that is the REAL trophy.

Well having won both trophy's in the past two season I will state that the GF does hold more significance. SKY and the media in general have made it that way. As for the "tinpot cup". Seeing as it's one of only two trophy's available, I'll take it every time over an otherwise trophy less season.

I never said it would continue all season but at the moment they are playing very good rugby. Like the saying goes, it's not how you start but how you finish.

Both Royce and McManus have stated in interviews and in the match day programme that we always start slow, well if they kno we start slow every year then why ain't they tried to fix it?

It's like so what, we start slow anyway!

Peaked too soon, this is a marathon not a sprint.

Catalans are the benchmark this year in terms of 'on paper' - I said this at the end of last season. Even though they have injuries to some good players (Vaccari out for season is a blow, he was turning into a promising winger) they have depth in half back positions and a huge pack.

It's going to be interesting when it gets to the business end of the season. It's difficult to judge things at the moment.

Because it doesn't matter whether you do or don't?

It does matter, every game should matter. Maybe if we hadn't dropped so many points so early in the season over past there seasons would have give us the the better route to old Trafford and possibly helped us win.

To say it don't matter is shocking! You try telling the fans that pay out hundreds a season to watch saints if they think it matters.

If that is the attitude of the club (I doubt it is) then we might as well not bother watching until it does matter!

I meant it doesn't matter in relation to the competition. It is finishing well that matters, as we know full well.

Of course it should matter to the players for the sake of their pride in themselves and the jersey, but for similar reasons like when players will up their game against a Wigan or Leeds compared to a Wakefield or Widnes, it is hard to pretend that losing (almost) meaningless games isn't the end of the world.

I pay hundreds every year myself, and whilst these regular early losses annoy me I know they will be all be forgotten about come crunch time if we are in the mix. But you probably hit the nail on the head with your last sentence, if I wasn't a 'die-hard' then that would probably be a good option. I know people who only go to the 'big' games and the CC/play-offs, who can blame them?

I agree what your saying,every game should matter but in reallity with the playoffs being as they are it really doesnt matter and thats something the clubs and rfl should be looking at,the poor crowds for some of the playoff games last year shows the apathy of the spectators to the current system.

I'd be happy with either trophy. No matter which one, one is better than nothing.

No it doesn't - don't be silly. We could win or lose 80-0 on Good Friday and it won't make any difference to our or the Pies' season at all even slightly.



Yes they should, especially when we're all being asked to fork out 25 quid of our hard-earned, plus petrol money, to turn up for them every week, but thanks to the loonies running the sport they don't. 85% of games now don't matter at all, including all early season games.

This frankly sickens me, but that's the way it is. That's why I'm a season ticket holder at a 3rd division football club and only go to Saints these days for playoff and CC games and the odd Wigan derby. I think in a few seasons' time, when most of the denser RL fans realise that this is the case and their 300 quid a season is being spent on just watching what are tantamount to a string of meaningless warm up games, there will start to be a big drop off in SL attendances to match the falling playoff figures. Then no doubt we'll end up with an even more ridiculous league system to replace what we currently have as the nutters in charge start to panic over why gates are plumetting. I dread to think what they'll come up with...

You talk some bollax?
Go and support your Footy team then because we don't need fans like you, Sport is sport Wigan didn't go out to lose to us 75-0 it just happens?
The play off system is what it is, yes is does encourage mediocrity but i like it and would pay £25 any day of the week to watch it. COYS

Go and stick your head up a horse's bottom. I don't need to speak to jerks like you frankly. And take some English lessons while you're there.

watching the cobblers as rubbed off into talking a load of cobblers

Ahhh, a typically reasoned argument from a pie if ever I saw one... Care to suggest why I'm "talking a load of cobblers" in anything I've stated, or are you just going to stick to some nonsense formed "opinion" based on no supporting evidence whatsoever? Hmmm?

And I go to MK, not the Wobblers. At least get SOME of your "facts" right.

Or go shag your sister. It's all good.

handbags.

Everyone's allowed an opinion.

No they aren't!!!

League games being pointless farragoes now is not in any way a matter of opinion - it is indubitable fact. The only place "opinion" comes into it is whether or not you consider it reasonable to fork out a big chunk of change on watching said farragoes. My opinion is that I have better things to do with my cash. You and others may indeed think otherwise (at least for the time being - give it another few years and another few "champions" from outside the top 4 and your "opinion" will change, trust me). That's fine. I hardly see why that's cause for the redvee-like muckslinging that the lesser evolved members of this board decide the expression of this opinion is worth, but there you go. In a way I pity them...

For the majority of teams they have far more point for far longer than they ever used to.

Back on topic re: Wigan.

They have looked pretty tasty, but it was against two of SL's weaker teams. They came up short against Huddersfield and got over a very poor Leeds the week before the WCC.

I'm not terrified yet. Wire and Wigan both look very good, but then I'd argue they are more settled in key positions than we are. They both looked far better than us at the start of last year too, but we made the GF and neither Wigan nor Wire did.

No need to panic, IMO we have enough quality to mount a serious challenge for both CC and SL.

Fair play to Wigan/Wire (and Hudds) though - all playing good RL.

For [isome[/i teams (the 3 or 4 mid-table nonentity teams that will be battling for 7th, 8th and 9th) that may well be the case. But why is there a justification for making the season artificially meaningful and exciting for the mid-table dross? Those teams/clubs do not deserve any more than mid-table mediocrity and yet you are happy to see them given the same completely undeserved and unearned lifeline to the goody bag as the worthy teams at the end of the season? Where is the sense in that? Where is the sense in any club trying for excellence when you can achieve exactly the same with mediocrity now?

The natural order of things is that the good teams should fight it out for the trophies all season, the bad teams should fight it out for survival all season, and the mediocre teams should have, well, mediocrity all season. The current playoff system skews this all preposterously making the whole thing vapid and stupid.

Here endeth the lesson.

No lesson - you said games are pointless, I'm glad you now agree that they are clearly not.

And yet despite all these "pointless" games, crowds have been going up. Strange eh?