I don't think Speakman would sink to be honest, I think he should've been given his chance tomorrow.

One thing I find interesting is that during our 2011 injury crisis, which was severe, at no time did we loan a player from anywhere else. I wonder what has changed that now we find ourselves in a position that is nowhere near as bad as 2011 was we go out and loan a player who is Salford's third choice hooker?

Maybe we can just wait and see how he fits into Saints style of play before we start moaning about him ?

Wait until you have seen Howarth then.

Are people moaning about him? Or moaning about the decision? The two are different you know.

I'd guess that hardly any Saints fans know what he looks like never mind what he's like as a player.

It'll be interesting to see Howarth gets on.Developed through the academy at your good friends,as a 6 or 13,it was unlikely he would get much first team with Tomkins and O'Loughlin in place at that time.
A coach with a good motivational record,and a former national coach,(John Kear) rated him highly enough to take him across to Yorkshire to a club (Wakefield) where Nathan Brown made a number of signings who have,and do,feature for the side top of Super League.
Nathan Brown,a former hooker in NRL,should perhaps be able to recognise a useful hooker,and had a close look last Friday night when Howarth appeared.
As Gaskell has been out of favour for some time it would appear that the performance on Friday night was enough for Brown to instigate this swap deal.
I wish the best of luck to Stuart Howarth,who was the player with the most appearances for Salford last year under Phil Veivers.

Sorry to see Gaskell go but it was looking inevitable, ill hold my judgement on howarth till he's played a few games

Pah!

Is it getting s on that fence. Come down and join the rest of us.




As for this


...At this stage of his career Lee needs to be playing more regularly and with chances limited at present it made sense for him to go out on loan...


Really limited chances, not limited by us having a decent halfback to keep him out.

Do we have a decent halfback keeping Gaskell out? Who's that then?

I was wondering that myself!

Talk about throwing someone under the bus. Howarth hasnt even had a number given to him yet and half of this board want him released, butchered and sent back to Salford. I imagine he knows full well he is a backup and will only get games when Robes is out which after this today might be longer than anyone wants or expects.

Gaskell is gone, Saints have washed their hands of him for whatever reasons. Im not really bothered about the reasons, people love making this and that up but chances are he was leaving anyway and the good Doc down the 62 threw us a couple of fivers and Saints bit their hand off and packed away. Im glad for Lee, he will get more game time and that could be a great 5/8 and SH partnership they have over there. Another case of what could've been at Saints.

I cannot believe people wanted Browny to play Speakman tomorrow. Are you for real? Whats the kid done to deserve that punishment? He would have been completely out of his depth both in attack and defence and a drain on the interchanges and positioning of the WHOLE team. We have brought a player in who has SL experience.

I am disappointed with EMac in this but if Salford were offering the most for Gaskell plus a player then i cant blame him. I GUARANTEE that Howarth will be on less than Gaskell next year. Good business deal could hamper on the field again mind.

I would love the "U word" to stop being used by Saints. WE HAVE ENOUGH UTILITY PLAYERS, BRING IN SOME DEDICATED POSITIONAL ONES NOW!

And in return your getting a stand off who does not take the line on, cannot spot a decent a pass to save his life, puts his head down when pressure in on, gets caught in possesion because his still not realised what he is actually going to do with the ball, doesent make himself available for last option kicks (which is a shame because his got a decent boot) misses shed fulls of tackles, ohh and he likes a good sulk.

A turd for a turd.

What this does for me is highlight the incredibly short sighted decision made by the majority of clubs (led by Leeds) to scrap the u21's competition. What we have is a massive amount of pressure being placed on 19 year old lads to step seamlessly into the first team action when required due to injuries or longer term, be ready to push for a first team place at the end of their u19's season. Unless they are a freak (Graham or Burgess brothers) you can wave goodbye to any props coming through and commanding a place in the first team squad of 25. Also, the key positions of 9, 7 or 6 - whats the chances of them being ready to take on Leeds/Wigan/Wires in a big game and move the team around the park at 19/20 years old??

I think its a real shame that the u21's was scrapped and for me, the RFL idea of having an u23's was a better concept - it would give the opportunity for these lads to get themselves as ready as possible for a career at SL level and they could be phased in gradually rather than thrown in at the deep end when they are simply not ready. No disrespect to Howarth but the net result is that you end up having to sign 23 y/o third choice hooker from Salford rather than bring in your own player who knows your systems and has been around the club since they were at school.

Do they? I know a couple of Salford fans have commented on him as a player but other than being told he's Salford's third choice hooker, I don't see half the board wanting him butchered. I'm not sure anyone really wants us to take on someone else's third choice anything to be honest and I don't know how you can know that Speakman couldn't have done a job today. After all, during 2011 when we had that awful injury crisis, young players were stepping up in derbies and such like all the time, yet we made it to a grand final. I doubt our players are soft. In fact, Speakman could have wowed us all much like Percival did against Leeds. If they're good enough, they're old enough.

Like the chief says some players are good enough at 18/19 but a lot need further development, particularly in the forwards. We have been graced with two freaks at hooker with kc and robes, kc at 18 was brilliant, as was robes. Hookers usually come of age about 25, such as lowes .

Roby was fortunate that he didnt have to do it alone , he was understudy to the King and so although he was playing first team he was still very much learning and developing

Exactly, he was gently eased into the side, not thrown in at the deep end

Jones wasn't eased in last season. So why assume Speakman needs easing in this season?

Showing your lack of understanding again. People develop at different rates both physically and mentally it's not 1 rule fits all. The difference between playing in the centre and second row to playing in a pivot position like 6, 7 or 9 is immense.

You've just agreed with me. That's exactly what I was saying. One rule doesn't fit all. So why assume that Speakman isn't ready just because he is young? That appears to be what is being done here.

But you are assuming he is just like Jones. We all assume, but the coaches will be actually able to say where they are and what they can do. If the coaches assessment is that Speakman requires drip feeding into the team, that's based on them knowing the player not just making a wild guess about what type of player he is.

However I still maintain that when Cunningham retired, why was the club not looking to recruit a hooker? Speakman would have been in the under 15's so obviously we had no youth product ready at hooker, so we should have brought one in.

I'd say if our big pack was getting the quality service that Speakman looked like he could provide, they could make things comfortable for him even if he is a bit tender.

I'd say that overall this would be just as effective as playing a guy who's more physically equipped, but has less talent for dummy half distribution who could look better as an individual, but hamper the pack slightly with inferior service.

But , in Brown we trust. If we get a result today, fair play to him.

Quality post, Chief - and I completely agree.

The assumption is based on the fact that Saints have signed a hooker on loan and are putting him straight into the squad for today's game against wigan. That alone justifies the assumption that NB doesn't think Speakman is ready for regular first team action, as a teenager playing in arguably the most important position on the field.

If it looks like a dog, and barks like a dog, chances are, it's a dog.

No I wasn't. I was positing that one player wasn't introduced gently so why should another automatically need to be. My point is exactly that each player is different, and I have made that same point many times over the years, even when others were disagreeing with me! But until we actually see Speakman play in a full match then we won't know how he copes and nor will Brown. Percival, who isn't the biggest bloke in the world, was thrown in for the full 80 against Leeds, who are the champions, so I don't see why Speakman couldn't be given a go against Wigan. Ultimately it is always sink or swim for a new player once they are out there on the pitch.