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| We should all be glad this has happened now as opposed to 20th January.
I know it seems like a blow to Saints but I'd much rather this happen than everyone think it's all hunky dory and for fans to get injured (or worse.)
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| It's more than a blow. It must have been a bloody big gust.
Just a storm in a teacup with your new sponsors.
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| Can someone check if the Stobart stadium is booked on our season's dates.
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| Meanwhile, a planning application to install perforated aluminium cladding around perimeters of the north, west and east stands, to ensure concourses are covered “as much as is technically possible”, has also been approved by St Helens Council.
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| Quote ="Rommel"Meanwhile, a planning application to install perforated aluminium cladding around perimeters of the north, west and east stands, to ensure concourses are covered “as much as is technically possible”, has also been approved by St Helens Council.
'"
as long as they attach it properly
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| [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne614zXSxCICheer Up Guys[/url
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| just because you went home and reported on it doesnt make it fact, and as for gary mercer what a story to tell everyone, it missed me by inches, it landed nearer to me and I was in the stand.
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| [url=http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/1529Sounds promising[/url.
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| Not even a little bit of wind can keep us down... for record does anybody know if Rogues was in the vacinity of Langtree Park when the 70mph wind broke? I've heard he has a wind problem!!!!
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| Quote ="D.D."Well I was there too and the roofing sheer landed on the pitch and narrowly missed Gary Mercer by no more than a few feet. In fact he has even referred to said incident in print. I actually wrote about the incident as soon as I got home and still have the report now.'"
Quite right DD. 'Ming' as he was known then (Mercer) actually asked me had I got the incident on film afterwards in the dressing room. I think the potential seriousness of the incident had sunk in by then. Lucky escape me thinks. It may have landed close to Fossy as well, as back then Mercer was probably playing in the centres before switching to the second row. See somone doesnt agree with us, but not to worry, no one was actually injured and thats the main thing I suppose
Jees was it in 1990, knew it was some time back but didnt realise it was that long ago, time flies doesnt it, (like KR roof panels !!)
THE HOOF
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| Quote ="HOOF HEARTED"Quote ="D.D."Well I was there too and the roofing sheer landed on the pitch and narrowly missed Gary Mercer by no more than a few feet. In fact he has even referred to said incident in print. I actually wrote about the incident as soon as I got home and still have the report now.'"
Quite right DD. 'Ming' as he was known then (Mercer) actually asked me had I got the incident on film afterwards in the dressing room. I think the potential seriousness of the incident had sunk in by then. Lucky escape me thinks. It may have landed close to Fossy as well, as back then Mercer was probably playing in the centres before switching to the second row. See somone doesnt agree with us, but not to worry, no one was actually injured and thats the main thing I suppose
Jees was it in 1990, knew it was some time back but didnt realise it was that long ago, time flies doesnt it, (like KR roof panels !!)
THE HOOF'"
I was one of the couple of thousand poor suckers there too on that awful night (huddled right at the very back of the Pop and still getting soaked by literally horizontal sheets of rain, the likes of which I have never seen before or since anywhere) and for the record I think Mercer was playing on the wing and the roof panel landed maybe about 20 or 30 feet away from him. A lucky escape certainly but not quite as close a shave as some may claim.
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| Quote ="Dux"[url=http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/1529Sounds promising[/url.'"
No mention of what/who was at fault for this happening.....
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| Quote ="Dux"[url=http://www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/1529Sounds promising[/url.'"
It does. But more gale force winds are due in overnight so personally I'll feel a whole lot more encouraged if I wake up tomorrow and no further damage has occurred!
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| while its no comfort to us i read in the paper that part of Epsom's grandstand roof blew away as well so it does happen to the best of us, meaning us Saints.Don't know how old the Epsom roof is.But of course the Saints stadia is our main worry at the moment.
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| The Epsom granstand that lost its roof was built in 2009. There seemed to be a similar problem with it: the aluminium strips peeled back and the fibgreglass layer blew all over the place.
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| Looking at the underside of the damaged roof in more detail, it looks as though they are short of a few cross bracings, don't know how that design got passed off in that corner. If its the same design in the other corners hope they do a risk assessment.
What we really need is a couple of years of Pigeon Plue to seal and stick everything together.
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| all very good on the structural stuff and weather reports.........
why insulate the bloody thing....
"woah Dave get some in'slation out o' van and stick it in 'roof thar'll keep th'eat in...."
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| Quote ="the flying biscuit"all very good on the structural stuff and weather reports.........
why insulate the bloody thing....
"woah Dave get some in'slation out o' van and stick it in 'roof thar'll keep th'eat in...."'"
that part of theroof is over the control room, so insulation is probably a building regulation
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Quote ="D.D."
With all these changes that seemed to have happened (enclosed stadium, then non-enclosed, the enclosed again; steelwork originally designed for cladding then downgraded so it's not only to discover that we do need cladding after all), I am wondering whether all things have been factored into the equation or things have been altered without the knock-on effects being considered.
Would the roof have been damaged if it hadn't been for the exposed corners allowing the wind to get into the ground and up and below the roofing for example?
For months I have expressed concerns about what I saw as some very shoddy designs. Sadly it would appear I was justified in those concerns.
What is going to happen if the entire roof is condemned as unsafe because, to me, there is no possible way any of it can be seen as safe now?'"
Dave you might be coming to this from the wrong angle so to speak
The roof that has been damaged is in the South west corner which is fully cladded. This was because the wind was coming from the south west.
As such the majority of the wind would hit the cladding and be stopped from travelling into the stadium. Consequently the seats in the south west corner would be a wind free area. However above them on the roof it was blowing a gale.
The consequence of this would be that you would have fast travelling air over the roof and relatively static air in the south west corner. Fast travelling air is at a lower pressure than static air. The static air being at a higher pressure would create lift, as it would be trying to equalise pressure with the fast travelling air.
Its easy to recreate the actual lift effect using a piece of A4 paper.
Simply put the top side below your bottom lip and blow hard. You will notice that the paper rises, which is somewhat counter intuitive.
This effect is essentially what allows aircraft to fly. As by creating a curved upper surface and a flat lower surface you force the upper air to travel faster because it has to travel further. Once the aircraft reaches a sufficient speed, the lifting forces are great enough to lift an aircraft off the ground and make it fly.
Now in the unclad sections of the stadium, the air is free to move below and above the roof without hindrance. consequently we would see a lower level of lifting pressure on the roof.
Therefore by cladding the rest of the stadium, we are putting the rest of the roof under greater lifting stress. This may therefore see the roof being damaged on windy days in other parts of the stadium.
It also begs the question if someone miscalculated and fitted the South stand roof to the same standard as the other stands. Being open, the other stands would not need the level of bracing as the enclosed South stand.
Coincidentally if you have walked around the stadium you will notice that it seems very windy, far more windy than when in the open near Tesco's. I suspect this is a consequence of the stadium being curved on the outside. As i mentioned earlier a curved surface forces air to move faster when compared to a straight surface. However curved surfaces do reduce the amount of force created by the wind against the actual structure itself. In essence the stadium is more aerodynamic than your box type structure.
For anyone who wants to learn a bit about why the wind can cause a roof to be blown off, look up Bernoullis principle, or just check out the link on force below. You may also like to read up about fluid dynamics.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_%28force%29
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Quote ="D.D."
With all these changes that seemed to have happened (enclosed stadium, then non-enclosed, the enclosed again; steelwork originally designed for cladding then downgraded so it's not only to discover that we do need cladding after all), I am wondering whether all things have been factored into the equation or things have been altered without the knock-on effects being considered.
Would the roof have been damaged if it hadn't been for the exposed corners allowing the wind to get into the ground and up and below the roofing for example?
For months I have expressed concerns about what I saw as some very shoddy designs. Sadly it would appear I was justified in those concerns.
What is going to happen if the entire roof is condemned as unsafe because, to me, there is no possible way any of it can be seen as safe now?'"
Dave you might be coming to this from the wrong angle so to speak
The roof that has been damaged is in the South west corner which is fully cladded. This was because the wind was coming from the south west.
As such the majority of the wind would hit the cladding and be stopped from travelling into the stadium. Consequently the seats in the south west corner would be a wind free area. However above them on the roof it was blowing a gale.
The consequence of this would be that you would have fast travelling air over the roof and relatively static air in the south west corner. Fast travelling air is at a lower pressure than static air. The static air being at a higher pressure would create lift, as it would be trying to equalise pressure with the fast travelling air.
Its easy to recreate the actual lift effect using a piece of A4 paper.
Simply put the top side below your bottom lip and blow hard. You will notice that the paper rises, which is somewhat counter intuitive.
This effect is essentially what allows aircraft to fly. As by creating a curved upper surface and a flat lower surface you force the upper air to travel faster because it has to travel further. Once the aircraft reaches a sufficient speed, the lifting forces are great enough to lift an aircraft off the ground and make it fly.
Now in the unclad sections of the stadium, the air is free to move below and above the roof without hindrance. consequently we would see a lower level of lifting pressure on the roof.
Therefore by cladding the rest of the stadium, we are putting the rest of the roof under greater lifting stress. This may therefore see the roof being damaged on windy days in other parts of the stadium.
It also begs the question if someone miscalculated and fitted the South stand roof to the same standard as the other stands. Being open, the other stands would not need the level of bracing as the enclosed South stand.
Coincidentally if you have walked around the stadium you will notice that it seems very windy, far more windy than when in the open near Tesco's. I suspect this is a consequence of the stadium being curved on the outside. As i mentioned earlier a curved surface forces air to move faster when compared to a straight surface. However curved surfaces do reduce the amount of force created by the wind against the actual structure itself. In essence the stadium is more aerodynamic than your box type structure.
For anyone who wants to learn a bit about why the wind can cause a roof to be blown off, look up Bernoullis principle, or just check out the link on force below. You may also like to read up about fluid dynamics.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_%28force%29
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| it's a bit windy tonight...
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"The roof that has been damaged is in the South west corner which is fully cladded. This was because the wind was coming from the south west.
As such the majority of the wind would hit the cladding and be stopped from travelling into the stadium. '"
This is what was talked about when the issue of cladding first came up. Due to the way the roof is constructed, there can't be floor to ceiling cladding due to wind resistence putting the roof structure under pressure and bringing the whole thing down. Hence the perforated cladding and the dips in the cladding structure as per the plans.
However, the damage to the roof may not have anything to do with the fact that there is full cladding on that area of the stadium. It may simply be a miscalculation in what was needed to secure the roof or shoddy workmanship.
Personally I don't care what the cause is. I just want to know that our stadium is safe and can be seen as safe in the future.
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| Teletubbies had a good design. £25m woulda been better spent digging out the land and building the stadium downwards... I wonder why nobody's done this one yet.
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| Quote ="onedego"Teletubbies had a good design. £25m woulda been better spent digging out the land and building the stadium downwards... I wonder why nobody's done this one yet.'"
i'm guessing you've never been to Odsal then?
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| Quote ="onedego"Teletubbies had a good design. £25m woulda been better spent digging out the land and building the stadium downwards... I wonder why nobody's done this one yet.'"
Odsal?
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| I always forgot about Odsal, cant think why...
Does anyone know exactly how the made the roof "safe" today? From where i've been today, i haven't seen a break in the wind where anyone short of having a psycotic death wish would want to climb a gantry and go on the roof of a stadium, let alone a roof with a hole in it.... I dunno, though, cos i work in Bolton...
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