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Quote ="The Chair Maker"
For Wigan the loss of McGuire at season end is potentially the greatest loss any club will suffer this season.
As yet we dont know who will replace him, but if it isnt a starting coach from the NRL, then i cant see Wigan hitting the same levels of intensity.
On top of his departure its also been confirmed that Coley is retiring and Hoffman is heading down under. So thats two gone from their pack with no apparent external replacements. They also lost Gleeson mid season and havent replaced him. Its also rumoured that Deacon will be hanging up his boots which leaves a shortage of cover in the halves, Lulu can play there, but that leaves McClorum at hooker which just kills Wigans ruck play. Wigan may therefore be forced to play the inexperienced and lightweight but talented Jo Mellors at Scrum half.
'"
In answer to the above part of your post. Coley will be missed, but we've played this entire year without Fielden, so his return will certainly compensate for the loss of Andy. We also have the return of O'Carrol plus the potential signing of the 6'3'' 17 stone Gil Dudson to bolster our numbers. Leaving us with next year in the frontrow; Fielden, Lima, Prescott, Mossop and outside those main four we'll have O'Carrol, Crosby, Spencer and Dudson?
Hoffman will be a loss as he's been superb. However Hock will pick up the slack left behind from the Hoff's departure. Gareth's already showing a steady return to form, to once again being the best backrower in SL. And just to back that up, look at Hock's stats from the season prior to his drugs ban in comparison with Westwoods superb season last year.
www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011
In regards to Deacon there are rumors that he'll go around for another year, but will only play sporadically as to make sure that Mellor and Powell get plenty of game time and experience without being overwhelmed.
The only worry for Wigan next year IMO is the loss of Madge. He's been superb, probably the best coach to ever grace SL IMO. So who ever does fill his boots has got a tough job. But it'll be a case of continuing on with what has made us successful as opposed to changing anything radically. Just a few tweaks hear and there are all that will be required. Plus while Madge has been fantastic, the roles that Lenegan, Radlinski, Bitcon and Wane have played in our rise to success shouldn't be underestimated, and importantly they'll all be still in place at Wigan next year.
If I was to make a prediction for Wigan next year in terms of what we'll see on the field. It would be the integration of a few more exciting and very talented youngsters, and a continuation of the systems and processes left in place by Madge, with a few tweaks to those here and there. |
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Quote ="The Chair Maker"
For Wigan the loss of McGuire at season end is potentially the greatest loss any club will suffer this season.
As yet we dont know who will replace him, but if it isnt a starting coach from the NRL, then i cant see Wigan hitting the same levels of intensity.
On top of his departure its also been confirmed that Coley is retiring and Hoffman is heading down under. So thats two gone from their pack with no apparent external replacements. They also lost Gleeson mid season and havent replaced him. Its also rumoured that Deacon will be hanging up his boots which leaves a shortage of cover in the halves, Lulu can play there, but that leaves McClorum at hooker which just kills Wigans ruck play. Wigan may therefore be forced to play the inexperienced and lightweight but talented Jo Mellors at Scrum half.
'"
In answer to the above part of your post. Coley will be missed, but we've played this entire year without Fielden, so his return will certainly compensate for the loss of Andy. We also have the return of O'Carrol plus the potential signing of the 6'3'' 17 stone Gil Dudson to bolster our numbers. Leaving us with next year in the frontrow; Fielden, Lima, Prescott, Mossop and outside those main four we'll have O'Carrol, Crosby, Spencer and Dudson?
Hoffman will be a loss as he's been superb. However Hock will pick up the slack left behind from the Hoff's departure. Gareth's already showing a steady return to form, to once again being the best backrower in SL. And just to back that up, look at Hock's stats from the season prior to his drugs ban in comparison with Westwoods superb season last year.
www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011
In regards to Deacon there are rumors that he'll go around for another year, but will only play sporadically as to make sure that Mellor and Powell get plenty of game time and experience without being overwhelmed.
The only worry for Wigan next year IMO is the loss of Madge. He's been superb, probably the best coach to ever grace SL IMO. So who ever does fill his boots has got a tough job. But it'll be a case of continuing on with what has made us successful as opposed to changing anything radically. Just a few tweaks hear and there are all that will be required. Plus while Madge has been fantastic, the roles that Lenegan, Radlinski, Bitcon and Wane have played in our rise to success shouldn't be underestimated, and importantly they'll all be still in place at Wigan next year.
If I was to make a prediction for Wigan next year in terms of what we'll see on the field. It would be the integration of a few more exciting and very talented youngsters, and a continuation of the systems and processes left in place by Madge, with a few tweaks to those here and there. | |
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| Quote ="bolinsblues"You will need to factor in, the fact that senior contracts that expire at the the end of next season will not be renewed. I stress will not.'"
To whom are you referring? Wilkin? |
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"Granted he has played much of his recent RL at FB, however he is not unfamiliar to playing in the halves, and has played there on a number of occasions for New Zealand, 8 times in fact. The last time in 2008.
Looking to his club career he has played 55 starting games in the halves, scoring 18 trys, out of a total of 179 appearances.'"
No, you are clearly wrong here CM. According to a number of oracles who contribute to these boards, Hohaia has never played in the halves during his NRL career. Never. This is a FACT, apparently. So therefore you or Hohaia or the club or someone must be lying!
I think Hohaia will do well in the halves myself. Just because he has been a bit of a utility player down under does not mean he cannot produce the goods in the middle. As you point out, Pryce was used as a bit of a utility before he came to us - in fact, I believe that we were willing to offer him the 6 spot was one reason he came to us (the other, my guess would now be, was that he thought Bradford were on a downward spiral, we were on the up and he wanted to jump ship; much as that perception is likely to be in his reasoning this time with the Dragons). But look at Lomax. He was Mr Utility last season and is supposed to be a six but while he may never develop fully at 7, he's certainly given it a good shot. No reason to believe Hohaia with all his international and club experience, and experience at both 6 and 1, won't make a better fist of it next season. I'm looking forward to seeing him play there. |
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What's the deal with Brotherton? Will we see him next year?
He looks big (6'3"icon_wink.gif, is no slouch and from the reports is could under kicks (offensively and defensively). Will we see him or is Ade going to resign and stand in his way for another year?
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"What's the deal with Brotherton? Will we see him next year?
He looks big (6'3"icon_wink.gif, is no slouch and from the reports is could under kicks (offensively and defensively). Will we see him or is Ade going to resign and stand in his way for another year?'"
Well he is doing pretty well in the u-20's scoring 19 in 18 games that despite playing in an ordinary team this year (mainly due to half of the team playing in the first team each week!). So he appears a decent finisher and with several full length efforts he is no slouch. However according to rugby oracle Rogues in the games he has seen him in he is not yet good enough to play first team, in saying that he is presently only 19 so there is no rush.
I'd at least hope to see him get somes games preseason and in the cup next year and go from there. |
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| Quote ="Chris Saint"Well he is doing pretty well in the u-20's scoring 19 in 18 games that despite playing in an ordinary team this year (mainly due to half of the team playing in the first team each week!). So he appears a decent finisher and with several full length efforts he is no slouch. However according to rugby oracle Rogues in the games he has seen him in he is not yet good enough to play first team, in saying that he is presently only 19 so there is no rush.
I'd at least hope to see him get somes games preseason and in the cup next year and go from there.'"
Playing wing these days isn't about being Athoney Sullivanesque. It sounds like they use him under the bomb in attack, in which his height gives him a massive advantage.
He's big and reasonably fast. If he doesn't have many errors in him I don't see what's going to stop him getting first team action - we don't have masses of talent in front of him and injuries do occur. Armstrong will also probably leave this year.
No one has been good enough to point out any flaws in his game |
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| Quote ="bolinsblues"Pryce will not be the only first team player who won't renew his contract!!'"
Yeah we already know. |
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for me the concern next year is will the pack go well without graham? its hard to tell i`m not going to use hullkr as a barometer for next year. the other concern is the kicking game. i think this has been demonstrated when leon got fit. there is no kicking game as neither pryce or lomax offer a kicking game. i`ve no idea whether lance can kick but if not a combination of lomax and lance may offer similar kicking options to lomax and pryce. with pryce not signing there has to be room left. and looking up the thread what about a checky bid for briers
gaskel can kick but whether we will play him ahead of lomax and lance is unlikely even if it means a less balenceed kicking game.
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"for me the concern next year is will the pack go well without graham? its hard to tell i`m not going to use hullkr as a barometer for next year. the other concern is the kicking game. i think this has been demonstrated when leon got fit. there is no kicking game as neither pryce or lomax offer a kicking game. i`ve no idea whether lance can kick but if not a combination of lomax and lance may offer similar kicking options to lomax and pryce. with pryce not signing there has to be room left. and looking up the thread what about a checky bid for briers
gaskel can kick but whether we will play him ahead of lomax and lance is unlikely even if it means a less balenceed kicking game.'"
I think you'll see Clough come into his own next year. He's the tirless worker to get the no nonsense yards.
I aslo think that a Wellen,Lomax, Hohaia combination will be massively lacking in terms of kicking and distribution. I think Gaskell should come into that set up for Wellens. |
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"Playing wing these days isn't about being Athoney Sullivanesque. It sounds like they use him under the bomb in attack, in which his height gives him a massive advantage.
He's big and reasonably fast. If he doesn't have many errors in him I don't see what's going to stop him getting first team action - we don't have masses of talent in front of him and injuries do occur. Armstrong will also probably leave this year.
No one has been good enough to point out any flaws in his game'"
I agree, look at how useful a tactic it is for Wigan with Richards (not their only one before the Pies snipe) but with a good kick he is almost unmarkable.
Brotherton does have speed & height things that you can't coach & sounds like he is solid under the kick so he definitely has potential, as for his readiness I am only quoting Rogues, who despite having his favourites is generally fair but how much he has seen of him I don't know. It is impossible for me to see any flaws as I haven't seen any u20 but things like his defensive reading/positioning are not something we can tell from match reports/stats so he might have issues there.
I agree if there is nothing obviously weak I'd like to see him get the chance in 2012 chuck him in the for preseason, then the cup and if he handles the step well try him in the league. |
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"I am not overly concerned with the departure of Pryce.
He has been an excellent player for us, however he has missed much of the last two seasons through injury and as a result we have played a lot of RL without him and done pretty well.
The loss of Pryce, Graham and Eastmond in one season is a blow, make no bones about it.
I'm sure the club were looking to build the teams long term success around Graham and Eastmond.
Luckily we have replacements coming through who can do Eastmonds job, perhaps not to the same level of X factor, but who are still very talented young players.
Graham on the other hand cannot be replaced directly so you have to adapt the squad somewhat.
Lafranchi is a top class signing on paper, and despite playing most of his RL in the second row he has been playing at prop this season. I also always thought the signings this year of Perry and LMS were actually to cover the probable departure of Graham at the end of this year.
Looking ahead many fans are now saying we will be finishing mid table next year, I think that is just typical ignorance from fans who are not aware of events happening at other clubs. You would think that everyone else is signing world beaters and only Saints are releasing players.
The reality is that Saints major rivals eg Wigan, Wire and leeds all have issues themselves to look at.
For Wigan the loss of McGuire at season end is potentially the greatest loss any club will suffer this season.
As yet we dont know who will replace him, but if it isnt a starting coach from the NRL, then i cant see Wigan hitting the same levels of intensity.
On top of his departure its also been confirmed that Coley is retiring and Hoffman is heading down under. So thats two gone from their pack with no apparent external replacements. They also lost Gleeson mid season and havent replaced him. Its also rumoured that Deacon will be hanging up his boots which leaves a shortage of cover in the halves, Lulu can play there, but that leaves McClorum at hooker which just kills Wigans ruck play. Wigan may therefore be forced to play the inexperienced and lightweight but talented Jo Mellors at Scrum half.
Warrington are facing a player apocalypse. Vast swathes of their squad are well into their 30's and looking forward to their pensions
They have lost Matt King which is a massive blow and also Louis Anderson. Its debatable if the ageing Morley 34 will get back on the field. Brett Hodgson is another with probably next year being his final one. Its not clear yet what is going to happen to their talisman Lee Briers at the end of the season. He may move on, retire or go around for one last year. The signing of Stefan Ratchford appears to me to be an attempt to cover his departure.
Its also rumoured Matty Blyth, John Clarke and Chris Riley are going to Widnes granted they are not star players, but it reduces their squad depth.
Trent Waterhouse has come in for next year and he seems like advance planning for the loss of Morley.
Leeds are another team with issues around key players reaching the veteran stage and also departing. Peacock has probably got one more year in him and is pretty much irreplaceable. Sinfield probably has a couple left but is 31 later this year.
They have also lost Burgess to the NRL, Keith Senior to the now defunct Celtic Crusaders and also Ben Cross to Widnes via Wigan. Danny Buderus is returning to the NRL. Ali Lautiti is also retiring at the end of this season.
Their signings so far announced amount to Richard Moore from Wakefield.'"
Ali is not retiring at the end of the season, he is going to Wakefield |
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| Quote ="Frosties."Ali is not retiring at the end of the season, he is going to Wakefield'"
And the difference is? |
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"for me the concern next year is will the pack go well without graham? its hard to tell i`m not going to use hullkr as a barometer for next year.'"
Quite right too, given we can add Perry, Puletua and Laffranchi to that pack! |
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my choices would be
lomax/lance
brotherton/makinson
shenton
meli
(how he can play centre for exiles yet not be rated by us is beyond me)
foster
gaskell/wheeler(for that balance in the kicking game)
lomax/lance
perry
roby
tp
wilkin
soliola
lafranchi
lms
clough
flanaghan
flannery (i`m assuming we are losing moore)
with 3 half backs already on the field i don`t think we would need another back on the bench. but if we did i`d go with wellens. he can play most back slots and offer a bit in the pack. not long minutes but more than we currently use our spare back for.
wi
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An experimental team I'd like to run with pre season and see how it goes would be along the lines of:
1. Tommy Makinson
2. Dan Brotherton
3. Michael Shenton
4. Francis Meli
5. Jamie Foster
6. Jonny Lomax
7. Lance Hohaia
8. Josh Perry
9. James Roby
10. LMS
11. Sia Soliola
12. Jon Wilkin
13. Anthony Laffrinchi
14. TP
15. Paul Clough
16. Mark Flanagan
17. Flannery / Forster / Wheeler / Wellens (Depending on how Royce wants his rotation to go next year.)
Edit: Personally I think L-Ho has a better kicking game than most are giving him credit for. He's certainly no Dobson / Deacon when it comes to it, but I think he's definitely an improvement on Pryce in that area. Jonny also has developed a very good short kicking game and I feel his long kicking game will improve with more practice.
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The fact that Simmons has already stated Wellens will be captain next season, to me says that he'll still be first choice FB. He did mention Roby stepping up to take the role vacated by Jammer though, so if he's made joint captain, Wello could drop out of the starting 13.
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| Quote ="Carlos Alberto"The fact that Simmons has already stated Wellens will be captain next season, to me says that he'll still be first choice FB. He did mention Roby stepping up to take the role vacated by Jammer though, so if he's made joint captain, Wello could drop out of the starting 13.'"
Yeah I agree, as much a I love Wello and admire what he has done for Saints I felt deflated when I heard the news as it is highly likely he will be involved in the match day team if he remains captain. I don't think we can afford to keep him there for too much longer.
There is always the possibility he will be an 'off-field' captain if Roby steps up to be a joint captain, but I can't see past Wello starting full back next year. |
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Quote ="SaintsFan"No, you are clearly wrong here CM. According to a number of oracles who contribute to these boards, Hohaia has never played in the halves during his NRL career. Never. This is a FACT, apparently. So therefore you or Hohaia or the club or someone must be lying!
I think Hohaia will do well in the halves myself. Just because he has been a bit of a utility player down under does not mean he cannot produce the goods in the middle. As you point out, Pryce was used as a bit of a utility before he came to us - in fact, I believe that we were willing to offer him the 6 spot was one reason he came to us (the other, my guess would now be, was that he thought Bradford were on a downward spiral, we were on the up and he wanted to jump ship; much as that perception is likely to be in his reasoning this time with the Dragons). But look at Lomax. He was Mr Utility last season and is supposed to be a six but while he may never develop fully at 7, he's certainly given it a good shot. No reason to believe Hohaia with all his international and club experience, and experience at both 6 and 1, won't make a better fist of it next season. I'm looking forward to seeing him play there.'"
Hohia HAS CERTAINLY played in the halves for both the Warriors and the Kiwis
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQDIqYpsHWI note his shirt number.
Also from wikipedia "He is one of the top points scorers in the club, while also being one of the most experienced.
His utility value means that he has now played for the club at halfback, five-eighths, fullback, hooker, centre and lock.
."
But anyway i agree with the rest of your post and am looking forward to seeing how he goes. |
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Quote ="SaintsFan"No, you are clearly wrong here CM. According to a number of oracles who contribute to these boards, Hohaia has never played in the halves during his NRL career. Never. This is a FACT, apparently. So therefore you or Hohaia or the club or someone must be lying!
I think Hohaia will do well in the halves myself. Just because he has been a bit of a utility player down under does not mean he cannot produce the goods in the middle. As you point out, Pryce was used as a bit of a utility before he came to us - in fact, I believe that we were willing to offer him the 6 spot was one reason he came to us (the other, my guess would now be, was that he thought Bradford were on a downward spiral, we were on the up and he wanted to jump ship; much as that perception is likely to be in his reasoning this time with the Dragons). But look at Lomax. He was Mr Utility last season and is supposed to be a six but while he may never develop fully at 7, he's certainly given it a good shot. No reason to believe Hohaia with all his international and club experience, and experience at both 6 and 1, won't make a better fist of it next season. I'm looking forward to seeing him play there.'"
Hohia HAS CERTAINLY played in the halves for both the Warriors and the Kiwis
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQDIqYpsHWI note his shirt number.
Also from wikipedia "He is one of the top points scorers in the club, while also being one of the most experienced.
His utility value means that he has now played for the club at halfback, five-eighths, fullback, hooker, centre and lock.
."
But anyway i agree with the rest of your post and am looking forward to seeing how he goes. | |
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| I'd love to see him to do that to Bailey  |
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Oh yeah. I know this. But certain other people on here were doing their usual mocking of me, claiming it was all fiction and in fact Lance had never played in the halves during his NRL career. I knew they were talking bollox but hey, what can a girl do?
I'm really looking forward to seeing him in the halves for us. He's a nippy bugger, got a great short kicking game by the looks of it, works really hard and could be just what we are looking for. |
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Oh yeah. I know this. But certain other people on here were doing their usual mocking of me, claiming it was all fiction and in fact Lance had never played in the halves during his NRL career. I knew they were talking bollox but hey, what can a girl do?
I'm really looking forward to seeing him in the halves for us. He's a nippy bugger, got a great short kicking game by the looks of it, works really hard and could be just what we are looking for. | |
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| International Star | 513 | No
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| Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Jan 2025 | Apr 2024 | LINK |
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i would go along the lines of
1. Wellens/Lomax/Ashe depending on the opposition
2. Makinson
3. Shenton
4. Meli
5. Foster
6. Wheeler/Gaskel
7. Hohia
8. LMS
9. Roby
10. Perry
11. Soliola
12. Flanagan
13. Wilkin ( i would love him to have an old 13 role and be a playmaker )
14. TP
14. Lafranchi
16. Clough
17. any from Flanno,Wheeler,Gaskel,Lomax ( could be devastating off the bench like Roby used to be ),Moore ( if still here ) All depending on opposition and injuries ect.
And in a rare case of plannet alignemt and other such freak events i find myseld agreeing with SaintsFan
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| Sep 2009 | 15 years | |
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| Sep 2024 | Jun 2024 | LINK |
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with pryce gone there is a fair chunck of money for someone to come in or a reasonable sum for two people to come in.
so it maybe that we are still looking at those out of contract. but no point spending it on just any old body. if they ain't betterthan our current players no point buying them as they may struggle to get a game.
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| Club Coach | 2928 | No
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| Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
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| Dec 2018 | Dec 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote ="brook40"i would go along the lines of
13. Wilkin ( i would love him to have an old 13 role and be a playmaker )
14. TP
14. Lafranchi
'"
I also think it is a shame that Wilkin isn't given the no 13 jersey, in fact it seems to go to anyone but him most weeks. He is our most naturally gifted loose forward, probably more of a Harry Pinne than a Scully. However, I think TP and Laffranchi will share the 13 spot next year, rotating between there, the bench and prop, leaving Wilkin in the second row. |
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| Player Coach | 16170 | No
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| Jul 2008 | 17 years | |
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| Feb 2016 | Oct 2015 | LINK |
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| Quote ="SomersetSaint"I also think it is a shame that Wilkin isn't given the no 13 jersey, '"
He was playing loose forward during the early part of the season. He even commented in the press that he was enjoying playing there. It's possible that the injuries have impacted on where he has played. |
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| Player Coach | 16963 | No
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| Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
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| Nov 2017 | Oct 2017 | LINK |
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"He was playing loose forward during the early part of the season. He even commented in the press that he was enjoying playing there. It's possible that the injuries have impacted on where he has played.'"
He still plays more or less the sane game if he's second row or at 13.
I'd be shocked if Royce changed is prop at 13 system next year as I think that's why he signed laffranchi. |
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