Some of us have been saying all this for past three years, the grand final appearances paper over the cracks.

The team is stale, it needs to be freshed up most years to keep the team competitive. The recruitment has been shocking for a long time.

When you lose players of the calibre of long, scully, Cunningham, gidley and Jammer, you need to bring in quality to replace them. We will never get players that good but we needed the best possible.

Example - we've replaced Jammer with a 32 year old backrow to play prop. We replaced Eastmond with a 29 year old fullback to play at 6. Shocking recruitment!!!!!

Bad I agree, our brand new stadium looks rubbish!

On a positive note………..Well, no one died!

No one can blame the half backs. What the hell are they meant to do when they receive the ball on the last tackle and we are still behind our 20m line?

If I was Brown I would be dropping as many of the old timers/established players for next week and letting the kids have a go. We may get destroyed but at least they will show some heart and have a go. Unlike those jellyfish that took to the field last night.

Last week this squad was arguably the best on the league, and although we were awful last night, they deserve an opportunity to put it right.

I'd go as far as saying, the worst I've ever seen us play!

Normally I would agree but after having the first full off-/pre-season in donkey's years with hardly any injuries whatsoever under a new coach who was with them from the start of the off season and having top notch training facilities available to them, I don't agree.

However, I fully expect the same crew to turn out next week, except Brown may drop some of the young players upon the advice of Cunningham (since, according to a pre-season statement, he appears to seek the advice of Cunningham).

Coaches taking advice from assistants, not according to the rumour I heard.

I think they deserve an opportunity to put it right, and I expect they will to be honest.

They will definitely all play, or all the senior players will play anyway. Whether they will put it right is another matter. But I think that can only really be done at home.

As an aside, in his debut for Bradford Jamie Foster has just scored, and has been busy converting all their tries. He is playing at fullback.

I meant that I expect they will all have the opportunity to put it right, should have made it clearer.

Good on him. I mentioned a couple of times that I thought he needed to move away from the wing to make the most of his abilities. He also made 155 metres forward, which implies he did a few things right.

Glad to know our lads can pull things round in pastures new.

What makes you think the kids will respond better to Brown than the professionals? Surely the issue of enthusiasm etc gets laid squarely at the door of the coach?

He had a mare, it was a tough night for saints everything went wrong no one played well, but manu will be a terrific signing he is a class act.

Are you saying the kids are not professionals? It's quite possible they are more professional than the senior players.


I don't understand this view. Every player should be enthusiastic at the outset of the new season. I can appreciate that as the season wears on and maybe the campaign isn't going as well as was hoped (or even if it is) then some motivation will be required. But not at the start. They should all have been chomping at the bit and if they weren't then that problem lies entirely with the players, not the coach.

Good half backs will create something out of nothing, Lomax and Gaskell are just runners they don't have the skills to create very much and take on the defensive line to create doubt. Lomax is probably suited to playing full back and maybe Gaskell could end up as a loose forward.
We could drop the likes of Wellens, Wilkin, Meli, TP and Perry and risk injuries to the younger players, Brown will stick with the same team, its only our first game and the jellyfish need to bring out the sting in them for Widnes.

That sounds like tosh to me, to be honest.

Good halfbacks will create something out of nothing when they actually have the space to do so. Our pack was so inept that it didn't just create no space but got pushed back to the beginning over and over again. The only thing a halfback might just be able to pull out of the bag in that situation is a (very) long kick that turns the fullback around but even then they would need to rely on the whole team to keep the opposition pinned back, and ours wasn't capable of keeping their hair pinned back never mind the Giants' forwards.

But good half backs create space do they not. Our 6 and 7 are too compact and flat in the first receiver line, we don't even have a second phase now where the likes of Pryce, Martyn use to come in behind the offensive line. I,ve never known a saints team to play so laterally over the past 3 seasons, very easy for the opposition to defend.

Like I said earlier Lomax and Gaskell are just runners, if the opposition reduces that option knowing they have no creative skills then there is very little threat to the opposing team.

In my opinion Lomax will never be a "natural scrum half" his position in the team is elsewhere.

That isn't what I have been taught, no. They need space in which to create. You can cite all our best halfbacks if you like - may as well throw Murphy in there too! But they played in a team with forwards who could do a job and give them ground on which to play.

Our halfbacks are young, inexperienced and have not been particularly well looked after since Simmons left. You cannot enable a baby to run until it can walk. Gaskell in particular is being asked to do a marathon straight after a brief time of toddling. Ridiculous expectations.

If our 6 and 7 are too flat then maybe that has to do with the coaching and maybe it also has to do with the limitations of the team as a whole which, on Saturday, were blatantly obvious.

Since we have given away other halfbacks - Matty Smith, Jamie Ellis to name two - then at present we have Lomax and Gaskell who, everyone will remember, looked very good in 2011. I would ask you to reflect on what has occurred since that season ended and maybe you might consider that their performances are not necessarily down to a lack of ability.

Hi guys, i've not come here to gloat but just to ask what the connection with saints and Fielden was as some of your fans bood him when he touched the ball. Is there some ill feelings towards him for a reason?

I honestly can't believe people are blaiming Saturday's antics on the half backs.

In order for a 6 and 7 to function, they need to be playing on the front foot, and that is determined by the pack. If the forwards at not getting over the advantage, and are being physically dominated by the opposition six, then you have no chance. Take on Sat Danny Brough for example, he was on the front foot from the first minute to the last, and the speed and aggression that his forwards were taking the ball up with gave them a quick ptb, which allowed him the time and space to control the game, and he did just that.

Put it this way, Andrew Johns couldn't have done any better playing behind that set of forwards on Saturday.

he played for wigan i guess?
and dont ask about robinson etc. all clubs have stupid fans, not just us

I agree that the lack of pack success limited the half-backs' options, but it's too simple to suggest they're blameless. In one key area, they were woeful, and it had nothing to do with the pack. Once again, our kicking game was terrible. Not only did it have no direction, but it had no length either. If the pack is being knocked back, and we're struggling to make progress, then the kicking game becomes vital, and the half-backs need to get us out of there with the boot. Yet time and again, the Huddersfield back three were fielding the ball on the full, on their 40m line. That's just rubbish.

In the second half, yes. But not in the first.

Yes, because we were kicking the ball from inside our own 20m for the majority of the game. Besides, Wilkin seems to do the majority of our field kicking anyway, so most of the blame has to be placed on his shoulders.

The new rules don't help, and forces kickers to stand a lot deeper than they would normally to prevent the risk of a charge down.

He used to play for Wigan, it's a good enough reason to boo someone