Really? Then how come under those two we got to the semi final of the Challenge Cup but this time we have been kicked out at the first hurdle? AND we are sliding down the league, something we weren't doing with either of the coaches you mention by this time of the season.

The slide was started under those coaches.

I'm sure someone will be able to dig up the respective teams. But I'm almost 100% certain that in neither Potter or Royce's teams for the CC, did we play with no halves.

The lack of halves comes from the offloading of Long, Smith, Pryce, Ellis, Eastmond, Gaskell. Gaskell is the only one that can be laid at brown feet. But basically the silverwear was sold before he got here.

We played with two rookies under Simmons. I can't remember what we played under Potter.

At least Brown could have introduced a rookie six (we have two hanging around) when he got shot of Gaskell. But he hasn't even done that.

The making or breaking of Nathan brown as a coach will be if he can rebuild a strong sthelens side within his three years

I agree but he will need backing to do it , this policy of rely mainly on youth will just not deliver results. We need to have a balance and I suspect we may have to spend some cash.

Loved the Wilkins last kick before the hooter.

Loved the Wilkins last kick before the hooter.

So you said it twice. ?With the other thread I do hope thats your 3 strikes so you sod off back to nailing your sister

I'm not sure this team is in the right state to throw a young 6 in, it would be like throwing a lamb to the slaughter.

Don't worry, you've got the mandatory win against us coming up in May.

Seriously though, you should be almost guaranteed a top 4 finish now.

I don't think it is the youth who are the problem in our team!

I've been banging on about youth for ages. We can't just rely on young lads, we need quality players in with them for their sake and our own sake.

When some posters was saying we don't need to sign players as we've got players in our youth to replace them. So where is tyrer, Gaskell, Eastmond, ashurst, Dixon, emmitt, Hargreaves, Ellis, Moore etc now?

We took a gamble on Gaskell and Eastmond and that's 80% the mess we are in now.

Eastmond was the real loss but even if he had stayed I suspect we would have needed a more steady Dobson type of player to partner him long term

The Eastmond Saga was the greatest dissapointment for McManus compounded by the long term injury fiasco of Pyrce and Wheeler.

he could and should have dealt with the Eastmond situation better. No team should allow the contract of a player you have decided is the strategic long term answer to a position to run down to 1 year or less , we should have told him to sign or we sell him , simples. Cant do much about injuries

Lance Hohaia in my eyes is a Fullback. He won a World Cup at Fullback and has competed against the best at Fullback. It is sad to see St Helens not as strong as you once were but we have been there before. It can only get better and you have some great youngsters in Percival, Greenwood and Swift etc but you have unearthed a real gem in Walmsley.......wish we had him!!

He actually signed a one year deal as a contract extension which was crazy if he was our long term solution to replace longy.

Don,t know if anyone can confirm this, but didn,t "Chariots of Fire" get into Eastmonds head to get him to start a career in Union. Result was the delay in announcing his decision, head said Union Money, Heart said League.

Offiah was his agent at the time.

I don't think Offiah was his agent at the time. Saints matched Unions offer but the attraction of national fame plus Saints fans on his back took him towards union. If it was for money though you can't blame him.

Did he go with Phil clarkes brother ?

Eastmond was defo with offiah but seem to recall him Clarke being invoked in someone going to union.

We have the stem of a good young team, Roby, Lomax, Makinson, Percival, Soliola, Walmsley etc.. What is letting us down is Mcmanus and his recruitment policy. Its been absolute dire for 5 years now and its finally catching up on us.

No idea but if he did I hate Phil Clarke evenmore!

I know he was with him at one point but Offiah denied it was his fault he went to union on Twitter.

Aslo heard today that LMS despite being dreadfull for us this year and most of last and despite him not being a prop as signed a new 3 year deal but guess what ? It's also on an improved contract! You just cannot make this stuff up.

In fairness I think Offiah was his agent when he signed the 1-year extension, and I think he advised him to stay at Saints. The following year he had a different agent, but I'm not sure who.