He was cheap.

Hapless my ......We are a well structured side who plays to our strengths......No big time Charlies and a team mentality......Dont judge us by your failing teams shortcomings.

I didn't say it was Simmons fault that it's dragged on in to the season. It's the clubs fault for poor planning and poor timing.

Saints should have put the offer on the table to Pryce, Graham and eastmond after the grand final and give the players to December to decide. If they didn't accept then it would have been done and dusted and could have got on with playing rugby.

Quote ="SomersetSaint""When you give 18 points away you need a lot of things to go in your favour... once we scored and got on top they got an intercept and that was the end of the game. You can't consistently win games from 18 down.*" That is very negative, can you hear Milward saying that? What happened to us being the comeback kings, and never write us off? With an attitude like that, its no wonder the team's heads went down. www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/646'" *correction, 20 points down.

Quote ="SomersetSaint""When you give 18 points away you need a lot of things to go in your favour... once we scored and got on top they got an intercept and that was the end of the game. You can't consistently win games from 18 down.*" That is very negative, can you hear Milward saying that? What happened to us being the comeback kings, and never write us off? With an attitude like that, its no wonder the team's heads went down. www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/646'" *correction, 20 points down.

What worries me is in the press statement Simmons gave he said he was out coached.Now Simmons has been a head coach before,hed been assistant coach to wests for a while and he was assistant coach in the national setup yet the quins coach has coached at university level,conference and assistant at quins for a little bit.

Im not writing him off just yet but things need to change soon.On paper we have a better squad than last year we replaced the players that left with better ones ( K.C. being the exeption ).We need a playmaker,no idea were we are going to get one from though but we are crying out for one.

Them type of players are near impossible to replace but we should have tried to get the best quality possible rather than just taking a wild punt that these kids turn out world beaters.

Them players have got to be replaced with senior experienced players with leadership qualities.

I think you've been reading an imaginary press statement. He said that he needed to take responsibility for coaching in terms of the team's attitude. He didn't at any time say he was out coached. He wasn't. But we were out played, that's for sure.

Youve got to admit it, we are looking like a poorly coached team.

No, I don't think so. I think we are looking at a team that is handicapped by not having strike players or pace in the backline, neither of which is a coaching issue. We came back against Wigan, we beat Salford (although most people do, so that doesn't really count), we held on with two subs in the second half against a fired up Dragons, having produced some beautifully worked tries (I saw the highlights). No, I don't think we look like a poorly coached side. We look a confused one, one that has too many injuries and too few players who can make a difference.

We lacked pace and strike players for the last few years to be honest. We look like a team with no idea. We look like a team that don't want to tackle. We look like a team with no direction.

That's because there is no Cunningham AND no halfbacks. With Cunningham still around we could just about get away with no halfbacks. Without them both and we look, well, like we look.

The team we had out last night and against Warrington was good enough to beat both.

I'm very worried about how poor we look.

I didn't say it wasn't. But without two fully functional halfbacks and a leader on the park, it doesn't matter what you put out - it won't work.

IMO the ain't a real natural leader in the entire squad.

We also played more or less the full season with one halfback last year but made the grand final.

We are miles behind Wigan, Warrington and the giants.

IMO everybody is jumping on the band wagon and forgetting that we are only a couple of games into he season.

Okay so we aren't playing up to the standard that we all expect however i believe we have a very good squad that will once again compete for honours this year. As the season goes on we will get better and i believe the team and coaching set-up will begin to start working well together.

Its EARLY days

Aside from the halves where we are lacking experience (and possibly commitment) I don't have a problem with the squad. Given the difficulties of pushing the new stadium through (especially the cost) and the unfavourable exchange rate for NRL imports it would be silly to expect great things. Our forward pack - when fit and functioning - is still pretty formidable and we are in a stronger position in the backs with the addition of Shenton's foot speed and the emergence of Lomax, Wheeler, Foster etc.

We have enough talent to cause anyone problems. But talent counts for naught if the team spirit isn't there. Look at Wigan under Millward. Granted, that squad bears no comparison to the current one. Nevertheless, it was still too good to be languishing at the foot of the table.

Without team spirit even then strongest can be weak.

This statement sums it up and we saw it coming last season as Cunningham was winding down the time spent on the pitch, it was like a disaster and sinking ship if Cunningham was not there, no team or its players mind should rely solely on one player, al;l clubs have had stars like Cunningham but they come and go!

Absolutely. Unfortunately, Simmons has been tasked with teaching our team how to play without Cunningham and his leadership. Some fans think this should have happened instantly just because Maguire turned a side which had already been in about three semi finals into a final winning side in one season. He had a totally different job. All he had to do was basically what Anderson did with us: turn an almost there team into a there team, and by the same means: tweeking the defence and instilling a must win attitude.

However, Simmons not only has to enable the players to unlearn the old ways and learn some new ways, he has to do it without two functioning halfbacks as well as an injured loose forward and fullback, both of which are key positions to attack. He wasn't banking on that and our injuries plus other factors in those positions will undoubtedly have undermined his ability to formulate a post-Cunningham style of play.

Bet you still finish top four though.

He ****ing should have been!

It doesn't look like he's teaching anyone anything. I try and take notice of people who know more about the game than I do and not get carried away with the emotional ramblings that emerge from a lack of constant success.

Most of the 'authorities' on the NRL opine that Royce, whilst a top fella, ain't a first class coach. Our performances this year amply demonstrate that we lack a strategy, modus operandi and any appreciation of what leadership entails.

2 captains. No successful team has TWO captains. It dilutes leadership not the opposite. It's like being at work and having 2 bosses.

Call it early. Call it transition. Call it injuries. Call it loss of experience. Good coaches make things happen quickly. Maguire at Wigan. BenneTt at St George. Bellamy at Melbourne.

I could go on.

We have second best. We need the best. We deserve the best.

We haven't got the best.

Ok, let's take those two. As I have just said, Maguire had all the materials to hand. He had a team that was 80 minutes away from a Grand Final (and possibly CC final too, but I can't remember) at least two seasons on the trot. All Maguire has had to do is put the finishing touches to what was already a pretty good set up and those touches were a tough defence and a winning attitude. Anderson did exactly the same to us but he came halfway through a season and we had important injuries at a vital time, although we still managed to get the League Leaders Shield in his first half season with us.

Bennett took TWO SEASONS to get St George to a Grand Final win, I believe.

Royce Simmons may be a crap coach, he may be an average coach or he may be an extremely good coach. However, five weeks into his first season at a new club, especially given his lack of player availability, the lack of consistency within the team, the Kyle Eastmond saga and the unsettlement of Saints in this transitory year, is no time at all in which to be making anything like accurate judgements of his abilities. It's just ridiculous.


What do these 'authorities' in the NRL say about Daniel Anderson? I'm curious because he got sacked, presumably because the Eels thought he wasn't up to the job, and yet look what he did at Saints. The NRL is not heaven. It's pundits are not gods.

And you have been closer, you have been to three GF on the trot. There are quite a few fans who have been waiting for the fall of Saints and a few more that have been predicting it for years, you have coped well with change, the loss of players and the change of coach so far. May bee KC going is just one two many. Andy Farrell carried us for the last two years he was at the club. Once he went there was no one with the same Wigan ethic left, the Wigan way! We went through coaches like they where ten a penny, looking for some one to take us back to where we where. The main problem we had, we thought it was all the coaches fault, it wasn't. MM has done a fantastic job at Wigan but don't be fooled its all down to him. SW and Rads are as vital. If you have not read Radlinskis book, do so, it explains allot. You may start to understand why a few are comparing the Ashton situation to Eastmond, its not the signing but more to do with attitude.