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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Ian Lenagans explanation as posted on the Wigan site.
It is in reference to Wigan but the quota rules are explained.
Here's an explanation direct from Ian Lenegan:
IFL wrote: Quota and Federation-Trained Rules
Since there is a great deal of confusion on this topic on Wigan forums, it might be useful to know the correct facts plus how the recent changes affect Wigan.
The "Quota" rules have been around for some years now and are based upon a player's Passport only. EU and Kolpak Passport holders (eg: Samoa, Tonga...) are exempt from the Quota rules. The maximum number of Quota players at clubs is 5 and remains 5 for the known future.
Players such as Pat Richards, Tommy Leuluai, Feka and Harrison Hansen have never counted towards the Quota of 5 because of their European or Kolpak Passports.
Wigan’s 5 Quota players for 2009 are Phil Bailey, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps, Tim Smith and Mark Riddell. Four of those players are currently off-Contract at the end of 2009 potentially freeing up Quota slots from then on for recruitment. George Carmont plays for Samoa and is in the final stages of obtaining a Samoan Passport. This will remove him from the Quota allowing, as a consequence, 1 further Quota player for Wigan for 2009 and onwards.
The Quota system alone was deemed insufficient in practice to genuinely reduce the number of ex-NRL players who by 2007 made up 45%+ of Super League players (hence restricting progress of homegrown juniors) because of the wide availability of Kolpak/European Passports in the NRL.
With a similar problem of high proportions of “overseas” players in certain European Leagues, the European Football authority UEFA devised and had ratified as legal in the EU, a constraint system based not upon Nationality (which would be discrimination) but upon a method of “Federation-Trained” categorisation of players. UEFA has not had the Football Clubs’/National Associations’ support to go for player number restrictions and hence this method has not been tried in practice or challenged via the Courts.
Since the Super League Clubs voted with a very large majority in 2006/7 for further restrictions for the good of the homegrown game, the RFL developed the Super League Federation-Trained scheme which was announced in 2007 to apply from 2008. This set of Regulations applies to the Top-25 players at the Club unlike Quota which applies across the whole playing staff.
This Federation Trained scheme involves a parallel system of categorization of players working in addition to and alongside the existing Quota system. It also includes positive discrimination by specifying increasing requirement numbers in each Club’s 25 man squad for Federation-Trained players. As a direct consequence of this required increase in Federation players, there is a corresponding reduction in Non-Federation Trained players as follows:
2008 10
2009 8
2010 6
2011 5
In 2008 Wigan had 5 out of the allowed 5 Quota players (Trent Barrett, Phil Bailey, Tim Smith, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps) and 7 out of the 10 allowed Non Federation Players (Trent Barrett, Phil Bailey, Tim Smith, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps, Feka, Pat Richards).
Tommy Leuluai is exempt from Quota with a Samoan Passport and classed as being exempt from being Non-Federation Trained because of his 2 full years at Harlequins whilst 20 and 21. Harrison Hansen is exempt from Quota because of his English Passport and is Federation Trained at Wigan from 18 to 21.
For 2009, prior to the recent changes, Wigan had 5 out of the allowed 5 quota slots (PB, TS, GC, CP, MR) and 7 out of the 8 allowed Non-Federation slots (PB, TS, GC, CP, MR, PR, FP). If George gets his Samoan Passport, we could sign another Australian/New Zealander who would take up both a Quota slot and a Non-Federation slot taking us to 5/5 and 8/8. If instead we signed another Kolpak player, we would go to 4/5 and 8/8 and would not be able to take another Quota player because he would then take us to 5/5 and 9/8.
The two systems work well together to achieve the Super League Clubs’ objectives.
Unfortunately, a number of Clubs in the last few months of 2008 used the “we do not have enough overseas slots available” reason for not renewing certain players’ Contracts and at least one legal case was threatened based upon constraint of a player’s ability to earn a living.
To avoid the delays of an expensive potential legal challenge and to be scrupulously fair to players, it was decided recently by the ESL/RFL -with the unanimous votes of the 12 Super League clubs - to extend Federation Trained status to any players who had committed their future to Super League before the new Regulations were implemented. Since 50% of such current players are 30+ and unlikely to play many further years in Super League, the majority of these exemptions will work their way out quickly.
George Carmont, Pat Richards and Feka Paleaasina therefore become Federation Trained immediately and Phil Bailey at the end of 2009 taking us to 5/5 and 4/8 for 2009. Unlike most other clubs, Wigan has 3 out of 4 re-categorised Non-Federation players of a young age.
In practice, it means that Wigan can only sign more Kolpak players for 2009 since Quota is full, unless George gets a Samoan Passport.
These recent amendments mean a slight slowdown – perhaps two years – in the full effect of the new Regulations but, against the backdrop of a current shortage of experienced Super League players with the advent of two additional teams, some people think that might not be a bad thing for maintaining playing standards.
Wigan would have preferred not to grant the new re-categorisations because we had fully planned for them better than many other clubs. However, we voted for them for fairness to players and as the only sure way to ensure that the new Regulations would be implemented, albeit slightly slower.
We also believe that the requirement for Club-Trained numbers in the 25 player squad (within the category of Federation-Trained) to rise as follows:
2008 5
2009 6
2010 7
2011 8
will encourage development and utilization of more homegrown players and mitigate against widespread recruitment of additional Kolpak players anyway.
As far as Wigan is concerned, we continue fully with our youth-focused policy for the medium-term growth in quality of the squad, together with judicious use of a limited number of quality overseas players.
Ian Lenagan'"
That clears that up then!  |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"snip'"
Cheers for that Rogues ... very informative. |
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| Trent Waterhouse,may well become a Saint.  |
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| Quote ="BOYD2"Trent Waterhouse,may well become a Saint.
'"
We need prop's not 2nd rowers  |
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so we got spot then?
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| Quote ="BOYD2"Trent Waterhouse,may well become a Saint.
'"
St George. |
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| Quote ="St pete"so we got spot then?'"
for 2010 the limits are:
1. At least 7 players trained at own club. No probs there:
Wellens
Wheeler
Eastmond
Graham
KC (if he carries on)
Roby
Clough
Ashurst
Dixon
Lomax
Moore
I suspect you could also include Gardner and Wilkin, as they joined us at such a young age.
2. Maximum of 6 overseas trained players:
Gidley
Soliola
Meli
Puletua
Flannery
Cayless
Apparently there is now an exemption for players who were already signed up before the new rules were announced in 2007. In which case you could take Meli, Cayless and Gidley off that list.
So we've got 3.
3. Maximum of 5 players who hold a non-EU or non-Kolpak passport:
Gidley
Soliola
Meli
Puletua
Flannery
Cayless
Unless at least one of the above players holds a kolpak passport (perhaps Meli and Puletua might, having both played for Samoa), somebody has to go. Presumably that will be Cayless.
SO ... we definitely have room for 3 kolpak/EU passport holding foreign players.
Assuming Cayless goes: If one of Meli or Puletua hold kolpak passports then we have room for one Aussie or Kiwi passport holder. If both of them are kolpaks then we have room for two. If neither of them are kolpaks we can't have any.
Simple.
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reat, so who are we 'avin'? And should we have a whip round to pay for him?
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| Quote ="donkey O'tay"reat, so who are we 'avin'? And should we have a whip round to pay for him?'"
Bring back "Sign a Saint!" |
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Apparently you men have offered Coley a contract. Seems a bad rumour to me.
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| Quote ="Bill_Barlow"Apparently you men have offered Coley a contract. Seems a bad rumour to me.'"
Not a bad idea if we can get him on the cheap, but only in addition to retaining/replacing Cayless. |
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| Quote ="FearTheVee"Not a bad idea if we can get him on the cheap, but only in addition to retaining/replacing Cayless.'"
Aye. Kite and Coley would do nicely for me. |
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| Quote ="Dux"Aye. Kite and Coley would do nicely for me.'"
I am not offended by this suggestion, but why would coley come to saints to be our 4th/5th prop? |
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"I am not offended by this suggestion, but why would coley come to saints to be our 4th/5th prop?'" He'd be in the starting 17 everyweek (realistically he'd be our 4th choice prop ahead of Hargreaves) and would propably see playing for saints giving him a better chance of a) rep honours and b) improving his future wage demands. |
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| Quote ="Dux"for 2010 the limits are:
1. At least 7 players trained at own club. No probs there:
Wellens
Wheeler
Eastmond
Graham
KC (if he carries on)
Roby
Clough
Ashurst
Dixon
Lomax
Moore
I suspect you could also include Gardner and Wilkin, as they joined us at such a young age.
2. Maximum of 6 overseas trained players:
Gidley
Soliola
Meli
Puletua
Flannery
Cayless
Apparently there is now an exemption for players who were already signed up before the new rules were announced in 2007. In which case you could take Meli, Cayless and Gidley off that list.
So we've got 3.
3. Maximum of 5 players who hold a non-EU or non-Kolpak passport:
Gidley
Soliola
Meli
Puletua
Flannery
Cayless
Unless at least one of the above players holds a kolpak passport (perhaps Meli and Puletua might, having both played for Samoa), somebody has to go. Presumably that will be Cayless.
SO ... we definitely have room for 3 kolpak/EU passport holding foreign players.
Assuming Cayless goes: If one of Meli or Puletua hold kolpak passports then we have room for one Aussie or Kiwi passport holder. If both of them are kolpaks then we have room for two. If neither of them are kolpaks we can't have any.
Simple.
'"
Where does Maurie fit into all this then? He has learned all his League over here and has played for GB and England. |
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| Quote ="Agent Mulder"Where does Maurie fit into all this then? He has learned all his League over here and has played for GB and England.'" he's counted as english and trained by us! |
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"I am not offended by this suggestion, but why would coley come to saints to be our 4th/5th prop?'"
I'd take coley just as long as we sign someone like kite as well.
Graham, kite, coley, maurie and bryn would do me fine. |
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| Quote ="Rommel"Without stating the bleeding obvious it looks like were quite covered in the backs next year but Prop Forward concerns me alot
Who or what position needs looking at for next year
The rumour from the other thread about Brent Kite would be a top signing if true
'"
kite was strongly linked with hull fc, but apparently his wage demands were too high for us, and thats from a club that has a spare 500k on this years cap!!
i for one cant see where saints could afford his wages, someone would seriuosly have to have a clear-out to afford it, but he is top quality no doubt about that.. |
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| Quote ="berro's best mate"kite was strongly linked with hull fc, but apparently his wage demands were too high for us, and thats from a club that has a spare 500k on this years cap!!
i for one cant see where saints could afford his wages, someone would seriuosly have to have a clear-out to afford it, but he is top quality no doubt about that..'"
We're unloading some high earners this year. Of Long, Gilmour and Cayless (assuming he goes) two are being replaced from within. |
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| Quote ="Dux"We're unloading some high earners this year. Of Long, Gilmour and Cayless (assuming he goes) two are being replaced from within.'"
i know....weve got one...long... |
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| Quote ="berro's best mate"i know....weve got one...long...'"
Which is probably a good reason why you can't afford Kite |
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| Quote ="Dux"We're unloading some high earners this year. Of Long, Gilmour and Cayless (assuming he goes) two are being replaced from within.'"
As well as already operating £100k+ under the limit. |
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Over the last year and for next year we have lost some big contracts.
Long
Scully
Talau
Cayless
Gilmour
Fozzard
Long, scully, cayless IMO would be up there with the top earners at the club.
We must be way under the cap.
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Not if we've paid silly money on some of the newest.
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Just been speaking to a current Saints player and he doesent know anything about Brent Kite signing or anyone else. Having said that the players are probably the last to know!
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