Am on holiday in America, so I missed Wellens' comments. What did he say?

TBF, I could smell Saints from NYC.

His first sentence was
" I'm gonna have to watch what i say here but that was embarrassing from us."
He then went on to say that everyone was talking about us being back but we only played good for 4-5 weeks and that if we want to win the comp or reach the playoffs we have to turn up each week with the right attitude.
Then talked of the fans giving them good support and spending money and they "have to deliver better than that because it was quite frankly embarrassing from us today."
More quotes include "If you start like that in a playoff game or a grand final you're toast you're gone and watching at home from your sofa and the sooner we realise that the better because that's not good enough"

He talked of the Leeds & Wigan attitude being top class and said that wasn't there with us in today's game.

Heavy stuff.

There is also an interview on Redvee where he seems to question some of the players match preparations.
Post 190 on the Saints v Wolves match thread.

Oh right, such as who? The only players I can think of are Wellens and Wilkin? I can't see Walsh being involved in that as he's new, I can't see Sia, Manu etc being involved in that.

The "old guard" - don't ask who consists of the "old guard" because people get very flustered at the suggestion that it doesn't explain all our woes, but it's definitely them.

No way wello would try to undermine Brown. He did with Royce but not with Brown.

Will the real old guard please stand up

I'm the old guard !

Nor will Cunningham, who on every occasion I've heard has been very complimentary about brown (which is why as a rumour it's codswallop, but hey, anything to try and point the finger away from the real issues)

For all the we shouldn't employ ex players by some, bringing back Apollo would be massive for us imo.

As a player ?

Might be getting on a bit for that



I'll be satisfied for bringing someone in with a great understanding of sports science, I know Apollo has a great appreation for it, who can get our players up there physically. What's that Flanaghan bloke doing these days

Cunningham/ Wellens to do the rousing speaches and were onto a winner

Magic weekend 2008: St Helens 57 Wigan 16. Yet 2 seasons later 11 of these players won a grand final. The difference: Michael Maguire. Silly to write off so many of your players.

Yup. We carry some average players, but so does every team - if you listen to Leeds fans they've been carrying kirke and bailey for years, Wigan have plenty who have been scapegoats over the years, etc etc

Lomax, makinson, jones, swift, Richards, Thompson, Savelio, greenwood makes a potentially a fantastically good core of players, who can already be classified as experienced, (and hopefully well be able to add charnock, Hewitt, and a few more beside) we just need to bring the environment they're in into the 21st century. Club psychologist club nutritionist, club massage specialist, hyperbaric chambers, specifically designed programmes etc etc to exploit every ounce of speed skill and strength in them possible week in week out from friendly to final

Heard all this before mate.

We've all been in them jobs were you just turn up, crack on and go home. You don't need any real passion or enthusiasm for it, you just turn up, apply a basic skill set an go through the motions because at the end of the day, no matter what effort you put in, your wage at the end of the month is still the same.

I think there's an handful of people at the club who also have that same attitude as above. You need all 17 going out there scrapping for the shirt, however we've clearly got a few passengers. Wane singled out Josh Charnley for his attitude & contribution earlier in the season and dropped him. I don't think Brown's got it in him to do the same. That really worries me.

The other telling statement for me was his commentary on how Hudds forwards would be looking forward to facing us. I'm reading it that NB also sees what we see in that we are a bunch of soft ar$es up front - that's clearly the issue he was alluding to with Wigan for me and again was the difference yesterday.

At least he sees what we see but the question is WHY are we like that?

It's very helpful that the person responsible for the team's overall performance is stating the bleeding obvious. He was just passing the buck, as he usually does.

I don't think he was passing the buck. It sounded to me like he was publicly questioning the application of his forwards (despite saying that he wasn't going to do so) and challenging them to produce something worthy of the shirt. Surely that's part of his job. Whether it will work is another matter.

I think it needed to be said. Nobody likes being called soft by their coach on tv. We'll get a reaction one way or the other - the players will take it on board or the coach will prove unable to motivate them. Either way will lead to change.

Agree. For all his faults he's not a stupid guy.

He has been saying similar for weeks now. I think it began with 'I warned the players ...' at some point around the time of the Hudds CC game but nothing has changed.

He has on occassion said that 'we're not where we'd like to be' or some other coachism like that, but he's not made comments anywhere near as barbed as in his interview on Sunday. He basically implied that Huddersfield will be looking forward to playing against us because our forwards are all fannies. To me that's a new level of criticism, and if it doesn't get a new level of response then it's difficult to see where Brown can go from there. Massive game on Friday.

Eamon's first decision this morning will be whether to have a full fat latte or a skinny cappuccino when he meets Nathan for a "coffee".

I know mate, we heard it throughout potter, Simmons and now brown, the same problem keeps coming ( with the same statements as you say)

If you look at the figures, saints employ twice as many people as Wigan, and manage to spend around 500k less a year. To me, that indicates to me were lacking highly specialised behind the scenes staff. The most important area being the coaching and conditioning team - fans will keep saying "we have a good team"'etc while putting performances in like yesterday while re that hasn't been resolved.

You are second in the league - third if Wigan win their game in hand. There is every chance you will finish top 4. Because you are out of the cup there is every chance you will be fresh come September.

A lot can happen between now and then. Leeds are running their older players into the ground for instance. Peacock and Leuleui are unlikely to last much longer playing at that intensity.

Saints have some good youngsters. This is purely a coaching thing. He needs to drop a few big name players (I would drop Wilkin) stick with a few young and hungry lads and go for it. The older players are losing him his job at the moment. Youngsters can play with no fear and if they are good enough then give them their head. Experience is overrated - especially if it is recent experience of losing big games whilst the good experience is years ago.

I could see a younger pack with the addition of Amor backed up by Walsh and the young backs going close this year.