As a Wire fan - I agree with you. Our offensive defence was very good and winning the collision gave us the go-forward in both attack and defence.

I know there's a lot of doom and gloom on your board after last night - and many of the comments are valid - but you're 3rd in the league - something many other teams only aspire to.

No team has a devine right to always be top and obviously the coaching situation this year has been far from ideal.
It looks like a lot of focus has been on the new stadium and slightly less on the team - I'm not sure how many good youngsters you've got coming through but it's taken us 5+ years to get where we are now (you could argue even longer), but it's Smith that's pulled it all together with superb support from the board.

Not sure how long Brown is signed up for but obviously stability is key.

I must admit that for the 1st time for many many years I was quite relaxed with 20 mins to go and playing you !!

I've said for a while that Lomax is not a 7 and he's convincing me more by the day. The problem is I don't know what his position is. I used to think Full Back but he appears to have bulked quite alot and I don't think he has that explosive running game or creative side to him that good full backs have. Maybe he could slot in at 9 with Roby moving to 13 in future? I'm a bit stumped on this one to be honest. Hopefully Brown will bring him on next season, because he's stagnated this year.

As for other points made, we got dominated in every area. Our defence wasn't intense enough, we allowed Warrington far too much leeway when bringing the ball forward and I'm hoping Brown gets the players hitting harder and defending smarter next season.

Our forwards just don't do enough in the big games. Collectively we don't play well, too many players either aren't good enough or simply play poorly. The odd exception comes out playing well (usually Roby and I thought Clough yesterday), but our props in particular are far too inconsistent and not dominant enough in the big games. The rest of the team has no chance when the platform isn't being laid.

Our half backs are as bad as I've seen in the 20 years watching the club. We've had so many naturally gifted & creative players over the years starting from when I 1st started watching - Tea Ropati, Shane Cooper, Bobbie Goulding, Tommy Martyn, Sean Long and Leon Pryce. Now we have one natural half back in the squad and he's not even in the side (Lee Gaskell). I've already mentioned Lomax but Lance Hohaia, whilst being a decent player is never a half back in a million years and never will be. He doesn't have a kicking game, his passing isn't great, his organisational skills are non existant and he doesn't really have the rugby game to play in such a key positions. He has a running game and works hard, but that's about it for me. It was crucifying watching two headless chickens guide us around the park and when you have Wellens linking in at 3rd man, it's horrible to watch. Our ball movement is so pedestrian, the good sides deal with it easily. Our outside backs get no decent service and judging by their limited abilities, they require that space to do anything.

Possibly the worst part of our game right now is the kicking game. Nobody takes control of this area. Wilkin is basically playing three positions at the moment - half back, loose forward and back row and he's looking bad at times for it. Wilkin shouldn't be our primary go to man when it comes to the kicking game. There is no control over either our long or short kicking game and it's ultimately ending our sets really badly. It doesn't matter as much against the poorer sides but the big sides will eventually grind us down and work their up the field and win the territory battle.

It was very noticeable tbh. Saints jogged 3 steps in then stopped and waited for the collision, Warrington on the other had were aggressive in defence all night and put our players on their s which pretty much neutralised the Roby threat

Roby might as well not be on the pitch when our forwards put in displays like that, we need to win the impact and put them on the back foot in order to give robes his running game.

Wish they would play Lance at 9 and Roby at 13. Next season back 3 of Manu, Soliola and Roby could be lethal in open play away from the ruck area.
Agree what people are saying about Lomax, I would interchange him with Lance at No 9, which means Gaskell operating at scrum half. So that leaves an experienced no 6 a top priority.
Feel sorry for Wilkin at the moment, he seems to be plan B, when nothing works from the halfs give it to Wilko to come up with something.
Brown has got an enormous task next season in every aspect of our gameplay.

Im unsure about Wilkin, he gives his all in defence. In attack i want him to either be a strong running 2nd row or loose ball player, atm he is neither. He takes up the ball in one set, the next 3 he is throwing balls which make you wince. Also who told him he can kick, fair enough he puts in the odd good bomb, fine. But then he tries all the little grubbers or chip kicks which nearly always results in a 20m tap.

I've not been been a big fan of wilkin for sometime now, I won't knock his defensive effort but with ball in hand he's just a waste of space. He's just to small to be a running backrow and not clever enough to be a ball player.

I just wonder if he justifies his salary as a top tier player.

This is what I,m concerned about he does some work in offence that the halfs should be doing, then when it does;t work out we slate him for it. Do we expect him to make 40 tackles every match then expect him to be as good offensively as well, whilst Flannery who does less work in defence and offence gets off fairly lightly.

The question is would we be better or worse in the pack if Wilkin is not selected.

Personally i think Wilkin gets abit fustrated with play thats why he ends up throwing silly passes/ stupid kicks. if i have busted my gut and made 40/50 tackles a game the last thing you would want is playing one up rugby getting mullered by the opposition forwards set in set out.

With regards to if he was one of the top earners i would assume he is, is that disapointing, yes. He puts so much effort in, you cant question that, but what comes first effort or ability. Would Wilkin get into Warringtons packs yesterday, probaly not, will he be earning more than the likes of Hill, Cooper, McCarthy, Carvell, Harrison etc i would think so

Wilkin is being horribly diluted by having to play both 2nd row and halfback. He's a fantastic player who we are simply asking way too much of at the moment and his game is suffering as a result. He simply just isn't Scully and never will be. Letting him get back to running his channels and being a tackling machine and giving the handling and kicking to someone else next season is a top priority.

Hohaia isn't worthy of further debate - we all know it'll never work with him at #6 but that won't change until next year. We're stuck with a very round peg in a very square hole until the end of the playoffs and will have to make do. Hopefully he'll be lining up as an interchange hooker and covering #1 and, in an emergency, #6 next season where he clearly belongs.

Lomax is indeed a problem - I still think he's ultimately a #1 but we're massively oversubscribed in contenders for that position now. I start to wonder with his ever increasing bulk and our diminishing options out wide whether it might be worth giving him a spell at #4 again actually - he did alright there in his brief sojourn early last season and has all the attributes to make a really good centre if given time to settle in and our other alternatives for next season are looking a bit bleak. I think he'll still play #7 next year though as we haven't got anyone else to put in the shirt for now...

I think a lot is down to the coaching.
We are not seeing the best of many of the players, which you would think is a lot to do with man management.
Hopefully this is something Brown can sort out.
Wilkin is still a great player but I dont feel like he is getting used to his potential.
PT should be at prop.
not sure whats going on at 6 and 7 at times, but then Lance has had some good perfomances lately.

Wello gets absolutely slated when everything is going wrong, then when the team play well hes suddenly worth another contract.
Hes still a good player but you would think next year is his last year, and wouldnt be surprised to see a lot more of Makinson at full back next year.

All in all Saints have been very predictable and boring this year with no plan B and the sooner the season is over and Saints get back to playing the way saints should (entertaining) I will be happy.

And Ive read about putting Roby at 13

I couldnt agree more.
He could be devestating at 13. Hes almost wasted at Hooker.

11 soliola
12 manu
13 roby

NICE

I wouldn't say we need a Stand off, we need a Scrum Half. Jonny Lomax is an excellent stand off and operates very well there, his strengths are in taking on the line - the traditional role of a stand off. He is not on organiser / distributor / kicker - the role of a Scrum Half.

Not much difference in the positions these days but as a traditionalist I like to see primarily a runner at #6. We've got a few decent options at #6 still actually with Lomax, Gaskell, Wheeler (if you're being super optimistic he'll ever fulfil his potential - I've just about given up on him now) and Lance and Wilkin in an emergency. You can make a very good team out of that selection of #6s. Our big problem is most definitely #7 and has been ever since Eastmond sodded off to waste a couple of years of his career away in RU land. We simply have noone who can play the position effectively. We'll just have to hope that Brown has something up his sleeve that's all.

Indeed, I look at Catalans as a good example of how halfbacks should operate. They have Dureau at 7 pulling all the strings and Leon Pryce attacking the line wide out at 6. This, for me, is the main reason for Catalans success.

But when he has played this position (Salford and Hull are the ones I have seen and can remember) he was too easily dominated in contact...he's more effective running at retreating defences and in broken play, so I'd keep him at hooker.

I didnt know he had already be used at 13

surprises me that he would be dominated.
I would certainly still have him chimming in at hooker.
Doubt anyone will move him from hooker anyway.

Well he seemed to struggle...but it would be nice to see his stats from those games.

The Salford game I definitely remember thinking that he wasn't making enough yards and seemed to struggle, but it could have been the perspective that I had as the stand is very low.

The Hull game I think he only played the last 10mins there, so it's hard to judge really off that...

Hohaia isn't a good enough hooker IMO: doesn't engage the A and B defenders and his distribution is painfully slow

I've been saying all year how much I want Lomax at 6 and Lee Gaskell at 7. I'm a tradionalist I grew up with the scrum half dictating the play with organisation and also a kicking game. Lee Gaskell albeit nothing like the finished article should get a run at making that position his own. Everyone else gets extended runs in the side so why not Lee? He needs to play for his kicking alone if we are to challenge Wigan and Warrington.

Lomax to me is a 6. Again I look back over the years and thinking of who we have had that is similar to Lomax's attributes. Leon Pryce was a 6, Tea Ropati was a 6, Tommy Martyn was a 6 (albiet not blessed with the same pace, but quick enough). These were players that allowed the organisation to be done by the 7 and they were allowed to do their own thing. Lomax to me isn't an organisor he's a runner, with good handling ability. Take the kicking away from him and the organising and he'll do really well.

Added to that I really don't get this obsession with Lomax at full back. On what basis is everyone thinking he is a full back???? He has played their once in his career for Saints (Wakefield at home a few years ago) and I don't remember him playing there again. He may well be very good if given a run in that position but nobody has any evidence to prove this. I'd keep him at a half back position but he just needs someone working with him to help.

Occasionally, the 2nd receiver half back, which is what I think you allude to being the standoff role IS the organiser. Barrett and Lockyer were the prime examples of this, Martyn as well (although he and long tended to play left and right under Millward), Sinfield for Leeds is another one. Gaskell fits this role well and takes up that standoff position very naturally. Play centres around him, which encourages the defence out from the ruck, rather than staying narrow and numbering up on Lomax.

Lomax is a tough little lad and can have success running at the bigger men close to the ruck at 1st receiver, but only if there's some distraction further wide, otherwise they'll just be able to put up the brick wall in front of him.

We got away with our prop recruitment with Graham in the team but since as far back as Anderson left we always been short.

Now we've lost our go forward in big games as well.

There are certain position where we are well stacked in the squad - back row, full back and wing and we either keep recruiting or renewing contacts in these positions.

I think we need an experienced 7 and two props - an experienced prop ( not a converted back row) and a young prop talent.

Hoahia should be moved to Full back, Gaskell in at 6 Lomax is the utility back for now with Wheeler and Makinson in the mix.

If Hohaia cant do it next year pretty sure we could unload him back to the NRL with Makinson or Lomax stepping up at 1.

To fund it we should have some cap space already but we would definately have to let wello go, dixon and probably Meli who we would miss.

Our squad of players have been in decline as far as quality goes for the past 5 years. Positions 1, 6,7, 9 and 13 pivots are much weaker in skill and execution, even Roby struggles against the likes of Wigan and Warrington.
We have stagnated with the development of the younger players, Lomax, Gaskell, Makinson and now Jones have not really moved up to that next level.
If you select the present players who could make the necessary standard for success only Soliola and Roby would be in that team.

That decline has sadly been inevitable. I still wonder exactly where on earth people expect we could have replaced Long, Scully, KC, Lyon, Albert, Gidley, Pryce, Joynt, prime Wello et al from given that almost every single player of that calibre there is is either at the end of their career or just simply not available to SL clubs anymore. I find myself going on like a cracked record again, but in real comparative terms we're maybe just 3 or 4 players away from being able to be on about the same level of competitiveness as the 2006 side (players that aren't on the market unfortunately). Whatever the truth is about our spending, ambition and recruitment since then, we could have spent 20 million quid on signings and still not be a patch on that side because that quality of player just doesn't exist at the moment in the British game.

And I think you're being more than a little harsh on Jones to be frank - as an 18 year old kid playing outside of Hohaia under Rush's tactics he's done extraordinarily well. Makinson may be mirroring Foster's decline more and more with every passing game, but he's also done pretty well this season considering.

I,m hoping Brown can develop these two players very quickly, I reckon Josh Jones will be a fantastic player reminds me of a young Billy Benyon.
Makinson has not improved much from last season and the problem is because he is stook out on the wing with very little quality service.
The club gives me the impression that Wello and Lance are nailed on for there position no matter how bad they play at the expense of younger player development.

Josh Jones has been the player who has really impressed me this year, hardly anyone had heard of the lad before we played Warrington away. He's a big strong lad in defence and even though its been questionned about other aspects of his game, he always makes good yards and has a brilliant fend.

As regards to players sticking to postions down to being a big name, i think that trend will stick untill next year but IMO i dont think Brown will put up with that he gives me the impression you play where i say and that's final. Ever since he was annouced as the new coach i've been looking forward to see what he can do with a Saints team that lacks creativity.