Funny Farm? I have not said I like Wigan, I have just said that they deserve to be Champions and the League is in need of "Real" Champions after all that has happened in the last 12 months. Come on, what are the options, I have a health dislike of the Wire Scum so I don't want them to win it. Leeds have had far more success than the ability of their squad warrants and their fans are perhaps the scummiest in the league outside of Humberside. We are hopeless and have no chance so we can count ourselves out.

Catalan are the only team that I like that has a shot at being champions, but even if they do, they have not really looked like champions this year and would not give the league the integrity boost it needs. So it has to be the Pies!!!

Don't forget Darren Albert he was also assaulted in that game.

Neville has been treated harsh by history. He had the countries interests at heart just had a bad PR guy. He was just trying to avoid Churchill’s war that cost this country so much and allowed Germany and the USA economies to overtake ours in the years since. Plus there is nothing wrong with Bratwurst, get yourself down to the Manchester Christmas markets and have one with a nice gluvine this December.

Weren't Germany forced to pay the other european countries monitary compensation following the war?

That was the first world war this resulted in a depression which resulted in the rise of fascism. After the second they were banned from having an army which has saved them huge amounts of money in the time since.

We, on the other hand, were still paying the USA for the weapons they sold us during WWII until about 10 years ago.

This is where we differ. In my opinion, you should give a sh*t if Saints win it. As a Wigan fan you shouldn't ever want to see Saints win a thing and it should hurt seeing them win Grand Finals.
The fact you don't feel this way is what makes me question how much you actually care about or support Wigan.

So as a Saints "supporter," the integrity boost to the league,as you call it, is more important than our rivalry with Wigan?? So you'd be happy to see them win it every year so long as they deserve it? What a load of absolute nonsense.
And again, this is what leads me to question just how much of a Saints fan you are. Because in my book, no Saints fan should ever want Wigan to win anything, regardless of much they may or may not deserve it.

I'm with you on this one to certain degree but don't like the word hate that has been used quite a lot on this particular post.

However, as a Wigan fan who spent the first eight years of his working life employed in St. Helens I understand better than most the rivalry, plus the fact I married a girl from there (I was on educational duty

) so my outlaws in the main are in the main Saints supporters.

The next best thing to a Wigan victory is a Saints loss, and I don't have a problem with Saints fans who think the same but the other way round. I have many good friends whose company I enjoy who have the misfortune to support Saints, and good luck to them, but I love seeing their miserable faces after a defeat.

That's how it should be, as long as the banter is good natured long may it continue.

I agree entirely. Yeah I have used the word hate, which you maye see as a bit OTT, but I have only used it in reference to the club, and not the necessarily the people who support the club.

I live in Wigan with my girlfriend who is a Wigan fan, and my family is a 50/50 split of Saints and Wigan fans. I do not hate my girlfriend, or the half of the family that support Wigan. But I do hate Wigan and even if them winning the GF would make my girlfriend very happy, I openly want them to lose. If I told her I wanted Wigan to win, she'd think I'd gone soft, and vice versa.And as you say, that's how it should be.

It was a joke buddy.

Not sure how this thread turned into a history lesson and I can't be mythered reading back through it, but long story short: The big winners from the second world war were Japan, Germany (both lost the traditional restrictions their economies had always had that held back the innate strength of their industries as a result of the war and both benefited massively from the spur to their economies their need to rebuild caused), the USA (the only country in the world with a booming economy and lots of money to spend in 1945) and the USSR (they got handed a global empire on a plate). The major losers of WWII were us (bye bye Empire and hello crushing debt to the US), France (empire loss again) and most of Eastern Europe (hello 50 years condemned to the Soviet yoke by the Americans). By far the best course of action Britain could have taken in purely selfish terms in 1939/1940 would have been to sit back and let the Nazis get on with it - fighting Germany instead utterly ruined us for decades. The history books usually gloss over most of that however...

Not every year just this one. Wigan are not the power house they once were. As much as a league loss in the early 90's would have been a godsend, that can no longer be said. Now Wigan championships are so rare we can give them one. If it was not for the early 90's we would have a bigger rivalry with Warrington. For example, the Leeds vs Bradford rivalry has only become big because of the fall from grace of Hull FC. Which was the big Yorkshire derby when i was young.

I think in the end Wigan are not the great evil they were. It is time to let the hatred go and embrace the beginning of the great Saints/Wire rivalry.

Hang your head in shame

Again, why would sticking my fingers in my ears and going “Wigan are the greatest la, la, la,laalaa” make as much of a devoted a support as you? Yes I like to see Saints lose, but does that mean I would be glad to see them thrown out of SL for some reason, or be so sh*te that they always were languishing at the foot of the league? NO! I most definitely would not, and why, because beating them as a great side is much the sweeter. I have no doubt you are a top fan for your club, and have every right to say your piece, and you do, that’s fine, but to say someone’s support is less than yours just because they don’t think as you is a bit immature. Even other Saints fans have said they don’t agree with all you say, but you just seem to brush them off as disloyal, they are not, they just think differently to you.

Assaulted? I think the mists of time may have clouded your memory on that one. He was injured in a accidental clash of heads with Brett Dallas.

No, but the verminous scum sucking druggy Newton did for Gilmour as well. Neither the long injury nor Gilmour one were accidental, they were pre meditated assaults by a thug.

Gilmour played in the play offs (both games)

And? I can't see what that has to do with Darren Albert and the absence of an 'assault' on him.

Never let facts ruin a good conspiracy theory.

I agree with you mate and its good that you regard us as the true champions, it means a lot to hear that from the Saints fans who I know always respect success and class.

It takes a brave man to do say what you have done on here but if Saints are going to have a sixth consecutive Grand Final defeat I think it would be apt if it was the pies that did it as they deserve this honour.

If there were such a thing as faux champions then any team that could be d would have beaten them but they didn't, which suggests to me that both the teams which finished in the top two last year weren't deserving champions.

I don't think it's as easy as saying that Wigan will be the "genuine" champions whatever happens because they've finished top. Warrington have basically learned from past mistakes and have more or less sleep-walked through the regular season. Similarly Leeds don't even bother to start turning up until the middle of August. The league table is completely unrepresentative of the exact order of merit of the various clubs for these very reasons. For me Warrington are by far and away the best team in the comp right now, would almost certainly have finished top if top place actually mattered, and there will be a criminal injustice committed for the whole game if another team ultimately gets officially recognised as the "champions" at the end of hostilities. You couldn't argue that Wigan wouldn't deserve to be champions either though - so long as either of the Ws wins at O/T then the tarnished credibility of this ridiculous competition would at least avoid further punishment for another season.

Some people appear to have this illogical belief that teams can just play well when they decide that they want to, as if the form tap is exactly that. Something that you just turn on when you want it. Anybody who has watched or participated in any sport will know how ridiculous a statement that is. Even the very best can't just access good form when they want it. The sporting world is full of incidents where this hasn't happened and also where the favourite hasn't won as expected.

That is so true and why i feel the next 2 games are vital i expect us to rest a few for huddersfield and then full strength minus 1 or 2 for widnes so the players have not not played for two weeks and wigan to do a similar thing but slightly reversed full strength againsk kr n rest a few against saints if they beat KR

Tho its hard to see any other teams in the GF you never know

Whilst this is true, there is no point going full pelt during the season as long as you are in a good position come the end of it because there is simply little difference between 1st and 4th bar home advantage which as last year proved, we turned over Wigan and Leeds turned over Warrington. Any of those 4 are quite capable on their day of doing that so the advantage is minimal in the current top 8 system, you just need to make sure you're fresh, as close to full strength as possible and picking up some form around this time of year. Warrington went full pelt last year and they failed in both the Cup and Play Offs. This year they will finish 2nd but have won the Cup and look fresh coming into the Play Offs. I know which season I'd prefer to have.