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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"So why are they not penalised. Watch the replay of tonights game.
When we talk about cleaning up the play the ball then surely that has to be part of it, or do you want the tick and tap rule?'"
I'd love to respond to your post on C&W, but they banned me unfairly some years ago and despite several PMs to mods they not undone it yet.
But, whilst I think you have a point about incorrect play the balls I don't think there is a link between that and scooting hookers.
In rugby league the 'speed' of the play the ball should be determined by who wins the collision. If the defenders are on top (The NRLs surrender call for example) then they should be allowed the extra bit of time their defense has earned. But if the ball carrier wins it, making yards and going down face first or busting the tackle then they should be rewarded with a quick play the ball and should be able to build go forward.
The way Wigan fans seem to want the game played is that once there is a tackle there is a 6 or 7 second break whilst the defensive line resets itself completely. That IMO is terribly boring, takes the whole point of the impact out of the game and we may as well play tag rugby.
I agree that scooting from dummy half after a messy play the ball with the defenders falling over themselves at marker is a mess, but what we had at the start of the season was no better, just the oppposite end of the scale. What we need is the middle ground, where the winner of the collision is rewarded. Then they can ensure the play the balls are techically correct.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"I'd love to respond to your post on C&W, but they banned me unfairly some years ago and despite several PMs to mods they not undone it yet.
But, whilst I think you have a point about incorrect play the balls I don't think there is a link between that and scooting hookers.
In rugby league the 'speed' of the play the ball should be determined by who wins the collision. If the defenders are on top (The NRLs surrender call for example) then they should be allowed the extra bit of time their defense has earned. But if the ball carrier wins it, making yards and going down face first or busting the tackle then they should be rewarded with a quick play the ball and should be able to build go forward.
The way Wigan fans seem to want the game played is that once there is a tackle there is a 6 or 7 second break whilst the defensive line resets itself completely. That IMO is terribly boring, takes the whole point of the impact out of the game and we may as well play tag rugby.
I agree that scooting from dummy half after a messy play the ball with the defenders falling over themselves at marker is a mess, but what we had at the start of the season was no better, just the oppposite end of the scale. What we need is the middle ground, where the winner of the collision is rewarded. Then they can ensure the play the balls are techically correct.'"
I agree, the incorrect play the ball has nothing at all to do with the scooting dummy half.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"I'd love to respond to your post on C&W, but they banned me unfairly some years ago and despite several PMs to mods they not undone it yet.
But, whilst I think you have a point about incorrect play the balls I don't think there is a link between that and scooting hookers.
In rugby league the 'speed' of the play the ball should be determined by who wins the collision. If the defenders are on top (The NRLs surrender call for example) then they should be allowed the extra bit of time their defense has earned. But if the ball carrier wins it, making yards and going down face first or busting the tackle then they should be rewarded with a quick play the ball and should be able to build go forward.
The way Wigan fans seem to want the game played is that once there is a tackle there is a 6 or 7 second break whilst the defensive line resets itself completely. That IMO is terribly boring, takes the whole point of the impact out of the game and we may as well play tag rugby.
=#FF4000I agree that scooting from dummy half after a messy play the ball with the defenders falling over themselves at marker is a mess, but what we had at the start of the season was no better, just the oppposite end of the scale. What we need is the middle ground, where the winner of the collision is rewarded. Then they can ensure the play the balls are techically correct.'"
Which is exactly what I would like. A good tackle (no matter how many in there are in should be rewarded)
A good tackle bust should also be rewarded.
What we should have is the rule that says that the ball has to be played with the foot strictly adhered to. Penalise them to death until it's sorted.
btw
Thats the most sensible post I have EVER seen from you.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Which is exactly what I would like. A good tackle (no matter how many in there are in should be rewarded)
A good tackle bust should also be rewarded.
What we should have is the rule that says that the ball has to be played with the foot strictly adhered to. Penalise them to death until it's sorted.
btw
Thats the most sensible post I have EVER seen from you.
'"
Phil clarke was banging on about incorrect play the balls on friday. He said every vid ref call should check for incorrect play the balls. Thoughts ?
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| Quote ="St pete"Phil clarke was banging on about incorrect play the balls on friday. He said every vid ref call should check for incorrect play the balls. Thoughts ?'"
It could only work if we had video refs at all games, but I'd go with it to sort the ptb out.
As I said it's not an anti Saints thing, it's been a moan of mine for ages. I want ball playing half backs and hookers, and this roll the ball quickly is not producing them
rant over.
But at least I'm consistent.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"It could only work if we had video refs at all games, but I'd go with it to sort the ptb out.
As I said it's not an anti Saints thing, it's been a moan of mine for ages. I want ball playing half backs and hookers, and this roll the ball quickly is not producing them
rant over.
But at least I'm consistent.'"
What do you feel about the pretend scrums we have in te game these days???
I remember if it was your head and feed you still had to push / hook to get the ball. These days it seems a bit of a waste of time even taking part. Very rare to see the feeding side loose the scrum........(Don't mention the Wigan v Saints game where you won the scrum against the feed......not a good memory!!)
Should this be fixed also? Or are we happy with it? Comments welcome!
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| Quote ="saintsvestax"What do you feel about the pretend scrums we have in te game these days???
I remember if it was your head and feed you still had to push / hook to get the ball. These days it seems a bit of a waste of time even taking part. Very rare to see the feeding side loose the scrum........(Don't mention the Wigan v Saints game where you won the scrum against the feed......not a good memory!!)
Should this be fixed also? Or are we happy with it? Comments welcome!'"
The scrums are a joke.
We lost one last night v Quins that led to try. Good luck to them.
Again it's about getting the refs to apply the rules. Either do it proper or do away with the scrums.
Like I said previously, failed half backs playing at hookers.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"The scrums are a joke.
We lost one last night v Quins that led to try. Good luck to them.
Again it's about getting the refs to apply the rules. Either do it proper or do away with the scrums.
Like I said previously, failed half backs playing at hookers.'"
I think it's very harsh calling hookers failed halfbacks.
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| Quote ="St pete"I think it's very harsh calling hookers failed halfbacks.'"
I also think that the quick play the ball puts pressure on the defending line to get back and be prepared quickly (causing a faster and more intense game) instead of walking back at a snails pace like some teams defences do (even our own some times).....
Playing the ball correclty will not stop "scooting" as it will take approx 0.5 seconds to put a foot on the ball....not enough to say it is affecting the defences.....It is the lazy defence line that is the issue...But I do agree that the ref's should sort out the things they decide to give and not give....Maybe fine them for bad decisions after the game!!
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| Quote ="saintsvestax"I also think that the quick play the ball puts pressure on the defending line to get back and be prepared quickly (causing a faster and more intense game) instead of walking back at a snails pace like some teams defences do (even our own some times).....
Playing the ball correclty will not stop "scooting" as it will take approx 0.5 seconds to put a foot on the ball....not enough to say it is affecting the defences.....It is the lazy defence line that is the issue...But I do agree that the ref's should sort out the things they decide to give and not give....Maybe fine them for bad decisions after the game!!'"
The is know way the rfl will fine refs for poor decisions.
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| I went to the match tonight without confidence in a win. I felt that way not because I thought Saints didn't have the talent on the park - quite the opposite. I've felt frustrated this season because I think Saints have the talent on the park to play far, far better than they have been doing. But given we were missing some key players and given Leeds appeared to be hitting their stride again, I just didn't think we would win.
Well. What a good feeling it is to be shown in no uncertain manner that our talented little team can indeed play like the talented little team they are. In spite of my heart sinking when Kyle kicked off out on the full, I can safely say that it is over a year since I have enjoyed watching Saints as I enjoyed watching them today. I thought they were wonderful, in the first half especially. I was totally engrossed and thought we saw some beautiful creative and skillful rugby league from our little team.
Well done lads. What a belter of a match.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Quins scored some superb tries last night by moving the ball around, no complaints from me.
What I'm complaining about is the call for "speeding up the play the ball" yet completely ignoring the fact that the ball is not being played correctly.
As you know it's something I have commented on for a long time, and not just about Saints.
Whilst I've got my moaning head on I see we had another referee who tonight decide to even the penalty count up when the game was already decided.
That's happening far too often in the game as a whole. Again feel free to disagree.'"
Rogues, If you want to see (or not see, as you seem to prefer!) the ball emarge from a ruck of players until everyone is back in their defensive place, feel free to watch the other code. It seems IMHO everything Pieheads can't do well, or cope with, you always prat on about.
Please get onto another subject. (Not Micky Higham), Or he (most Saints young players!) supports Wigan. Thank you in anticipation.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"The scrums are a joke.
We lost one last night v Quins that led to try. Good luck to them.
Again it's about getting the refs to apply the rules. Either do it proper or do away with the scrums.
Like I said previously, failed half backs playing at hookers.'"
Bring back the good old days, remember Woosey v Sayer,
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| Quote ="St pete"Phil clarke was banging on about incorrect play the balls on friday. He said every vid ref call should check for incorrect play the balls. Thoughts ?'"
Did Wigan lose again, he's a prat, (relation of Rogues no doubt!!)
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| Do we have to keep hearing Rogues' continual whining about how the game isn't perfect unless it's played to his exacting standards? I mean, please. Give us all a break. Competing in this competition and supporting it is far better than incessant nit-picking about your own personal calamity over the game not matching a dream reality.
As for last night's game. Graham and Tony P were immense in the forwards whilst Gardner, Flannery and Eastmond all made important contributions. The stars for me though were our three hookers. KC was brilliant in that first half as he helped us to control the ruck early on which enabled us to dominate Leeds. This is something we failed to do in either of Anderson's Grand Finals against Leeds. Last year we competed better because our game was better suited to pushing Leeds.
Quote ="St pete"Potter got his tactics spot on, a lot of down field kicks turning the very unfit smith and dodgy hall around.'"
Potter got his tactics spot on last night with the speeing up of the PTB and also exploiting Hall's slow turning speed. It reminded me of the way teams, particularly Leeds, used to kick behind Vainikolo so all he could do was recover the ball and take a tackle from behind.
Back to the three hookers and Roby had great impact for us especially in the second half. However, I would have gone for Moore as our man of the match. He was everywhere. Whether taking on the line, chasing a kick or kicking himself I thought he turned in his best outing for [iThe S[/i and that's very satisfying for me as a supporter of our great club and its great players.
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| Thought Leeds were poor and you guys were very good. Thought the scoreline flattered Leeds.
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| Quote ="McClennan"However, I would have gone for Moore as our man of the match. He was everywhere. Whether taking on the line, chasing a kick or kicking himself I thought he turned in his best outing for [iThe S[/i and that's very satisfying for me as a supporter of our great club and its great players.'"
I voted him my MoM too and for the same reasons. I think Jammer's run after Rocky at the end is what swayed Sky in his favour. I'm not sure why Knowsley Road chose Wello, although he was very good last night. But to me Moore stood out and his performance reminded me of the once or twice I saw him play for Huddersfield before his drop in form. He was extremely good last night. Perhaps it helped that he was playing in a position he can actually play rather than being shunted around the field? Either way, it was great to watch him. And the rest of the lads too. It was just a really, really enjoyable performance to watch.
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| I posted the other day a blow out scored could happen. Thought saints were very good for the win! Thought saints were good and Leeds poor.
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| I'd also say Scott Moore was mom. He's showed at times this year what he can do but only in short spells. That was the first time in saints shirt he's put it all in to 80 mins. He was awesome!
I wonder if he feels a little put out at moment at saints as he's 3rd choice hooker? I think we will see the best of Moore next year when kc has gone.
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| Quote ="St pete" hudds and wigan slow the game down so much it is spoiling the sport ? Super league is not so great to watch anymore, its like watching two players lay on someone with the ball for 80 mins.'"
I have to say that i fully agree with your quote there St pete, the danger we have is that if other teams start to employ the same spoiling tactics at the play-the-ball, we will be in great danger of taking our sport back "decades" and the excitement will simply drain from the game. What would you prefer to see, teams playing against each other that have "both" perfected the speedy play the ball, or teams that spend half the time on the floor trying to slow the game down as much as possible? In my opinion it is up to other teams to catch up and perfect the style of play that St`s "have" managed to perfect over recent years, not just to simply do their very best to do nothing more than employ spoiling tactics to slow our game down.
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| all the quick play the ball does is let the scooting hooker play more nothing else really. We are wrestling more in the tackleto get the dominant position when the tackled player hits the floor, thus enabling us to control the ruck. Happened for years with Aussie teams and their national side. All we have done is got 2 experienced NRL coaches and they have adopted it. Do you see the Aussie games decades behind ours? If not then what teams are doing will not take our game back decades.
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| Quote ="Pieman"all the quick play the ball does is let the scooting hooker play more nothing else really. We are wrestling more in the tackleto get the dominant position when the tackled player hits the floor, thus enabling us to control the ruck. Happened for years with Aussie teams and their national side. All we have done is got 2 experienced NRL coaches and they have adopted it. Do you see the Aussie games decades behind ours? If not then what teams are doing will not take our game back decades.'"
The "BIG" problem that we experience when playing the Aussies, is that the RFL constantly "Bow down" to the Aussies whinging and allow games to be refereed in a way that suits their style of play, i am yet to see a game against them where the refs clamp down on the ruck area and allow the speedy play the ball, the Aussies are seemingly "very worried" about coming up against this style of play, hence the "None-Stop whinging"from them, when it comes to referees and refereeing styles when they are to play against GB/England. And for what its worth, i live in England and pay to watch Superleague not Aussie RL, its obout time that everyone, (RFL/press/fans etc), rid themselves of this "fixation/fascination" with everything that is Australian and start to concentrate on British Rugbyleague and not try copy everything they do, maybe then we can move forward internationally, because in my opinion, nowdays the British game is far more exciting that the Aussie product!
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| Quote ="Saddened!"My posts on here are tongue in cheek, often exagerrated and part of my own way of dealing with the stress of top level sports.'"
Some people need to put this in their signature or remember it vividly for everytime Saddened posts, it's alot easier.
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| Ignore the Goons trying to hi-jack the thread.
Awesome performance by all concerned.
Has Flanno let Senior out of his pocket yet?
I knew we had em when McGuire well and truly spat his dummy at young Foster in the second half. Like a spoilt child. What a total ar$e.
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| Quote ="the fucitolbladderwrack"The "BIG" problem that we experience when playing the Aussies, is that the RFL constantly "Bow down" to the Aussies whinging and allow games to be refereed in a way that suits their style of play, i am yet to see a game against them where the refs clamp down on the ruck area and allow the speedy play the ball, the Aussies are seemingly "very worried" about coming up against this style of play, hence the "None-Stop whinging"from them, when it comes to referees and refereeing styles when they are to play against GB/England. And for what its worth, i live in England and pay to watch Superleague not Aussie RL, its obout time that everyone, (RFL/press/fans etc), rid themselves of this "fixation/fascination" with everything that is Australian and start to concentrate on British Rugbyleague and not try copy everything they do, maybe then we can move forward internationally, because in my opinion, nowdays the British game is far more exciting that the Aussie product!'"
Its is copied because they are always 1 step ahead of us in everything we do. You pay to watch rugby league and like it or not is played in both countries. The aussies play the game a lot faster than us but still adopt the wrestle in the tackle. Its all about playing with ball in hand and not relying on the hooker scooting all the time to make plays. If thae game as Wigan and Hudds play slows the game down how is it that over 60 points were scored at the DW on Friday and we put 50 past Wakey, it is because teams are still stuck in the mould of scooting. Well times have changed and its time for other teams to catch up.
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