If that's all Saints can muster against our injury riddled side with only 2 interchanges for the whole 2n half and no recognised playmaker either I think you're screwed. Plus a couple of decisions that could have lead to you have a try disallowed for a head high tackle and Shaw's being given we would have won. Be worried.

Roby was excellent for you when he came on, really got you going forward

I'll admit I'm more interested in how my Kabbadi side, the Jaipur Pink Panthers got on in the Pro Kabbadi League than I was in Saints.

That game tonight was unwatchable and the standard was truly shambolic. Hull KR are a shadow of themselves because of all the injuries, but had Albert Kelly not gone off they would have probably won tonight.

I can't wait to see how next week goes against Cas. There is a real danger that if they play like they did against Hull that we'll be blown off the park. But if we manage to win the next two, we'll probably be in a very pretty position in the table. Perhaps I'm overstating the impact of how poor we are, the standard of the competition seems to have taken a huge step backwards over the last few years.

The performance tonight was criticised by Carney and he was bang on, tonight was poor. The players are so static in both attack and defense. They highlighted it at half time, the team just defends like a garden fence, they spread out and stay still, it's a worrying sight and I think we could be on the receiving end of a true hammering this year from someone if we don't improve. In attack it's much the same. Whenever we have the ball there is usually only three players who move, the dummy half, the player he passes to and on occasions if that's a halfback the player he then passes to. The rest of the line are static. One of the things most noticable about the NRL sides was the numbers of players in motion when they had possession. They really put the effort in to giving options to their hooker and halves and support the ball carrier. The forwards have options to pass before the line and support if they get an arm free or make a break. We just go literally one out so often it makes us incredibly easy to defend against. I didn't watch too closely tonight, but I can't think of many clean breaks tonight at all. We scored twice from kicks, one from a dropped ball where we were lucky to not concede at the other end. The other two were incredibly basic barge overs from close to the line that were very soft tries.

I just don't know where to go first however. There is so little right about us, where do you start trying to improve that?

Conference called at langtree for tommorow morning at 9am. Eamonns acknowledging Keirons fantastic achievement of winning at Hull KR with a new 10 year deal.

This team and club is pathetic at the minute. I've totally lost all my love for them. Usually a season ticket, both jerseys etc... This year it was the Roosters ticket and that's me done.

Given our shocking record against HKR and an admittedly poor first half I thought the lads showed tremendous character to turn the match around and in the end win quite comfortably.

Not sure what people want. With that wind blowing through the ground, low confidence and a vociferous home crowd shouting for anything I'm not sure throwing the ball around made any sense.

Sure, we can play better. But you only need notice the difference in the side the moment Roby came on to know we've had some problems filling a full compliment of playmakers. If Lomax can get back in any kind of shape and we keep McDonnell and Roby fit we'll pose a lot more problems.

ATEOTD it's a better result than we have been showing at HKR in years.

Announcement of Fages playing in the next game and Sean Long will be attacking coach.

Quote ="Mugwump"Given our shocking record against HKR and an admittedly poor first half I thought the lads showed tremendous character to turn the match around and in the end win quite comfortably. Not sure what people want. With that wind blowing through the ground, low confidence and a vociferous home crowd shouting for anything I'm not sure throwing the ball around made any sense. Sure, we can play better. But you only need notice the difference in the side the moment Roby came on to know we've had some problems filling a full compliment of playmakers. If Lomax can get back in any kind of shape and we keep McDonnell and Roby fit we'll pose a lot more problems. ATEOTD it's a better result than we have been showing at HKR in years.'" Bang on Mugwump https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=co ... 875e4705o2

Quote ="Mugwump"Given our shocking record against HKR and an admittedly poor first half I thought the lads showed tremendous character to turn the match around and in the end win quite comfortably. Not sure what people want. With that wind blowing through the ground, low confidence and a vociferous home crowd shouting for anything I'm not sure throwing the ball around made any sense. Sure, we can play better. But you only need notice the difference in the side the moment Roby came on to know we've had some problems filling a full compliment of playmakers. If Lomax can get back in any kind of shape and we keep McDonnell and Roby fit we'll pose a lot more problems. ATEOTD it's a better result than we have been showing at HKR in years.'" Bang on Mugwump https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=co ... 875e4705o2

I agree, you cannot decide on yesterdays game solely. Come Easter you have to play Leeds, Wigan and Widnes that will be a better indicator.

Outsider looking in but your attack is awful. Still can't see them sacking a man who has a statue outside the ground.

I'm all for looking for positives but you must be worried at the lack of enthusiasm and organization showed in the first half.

Highlighted by the kick off when Savelio got tackled behind his own line. Nobody showed any interest in the kick or taking a pass to drive it in! It was shocking.

You only improved when Roby came on.

Just to put this into perspective you beat a team tipped to finish in the bottom 4, with a far to thin squad to start with who also had out the following
1 half back plus the other for half the game, our back up is out as well
2 hookers
Loose forward for half the game, back up loose has a broken wrist.
Top try scoring winger and kicker

We had a totally good try chalked off and only really looked like losing once we lost 2 interchanges.

I honestly thought saints would be the team to beat this year but watching the last few weeks I can't see it. Leeds and Hudds have key people missing but you had enough on the pitch that should in all honesty be looking at beating our team last night by 40.

It's worth pointing out that - judged over both halves - we played better football against Hull KR last season.

And lost.

Where Hull KR are tipped to finish and where they actually finish are two completely different things. As for injuries - we had plenty of them last season. Indeed, I seem to recall our stand-off having to play nearly the full game with a depressed cheekbone and fractured eye-socket after he was blantantly attacked to the head in the most obvious sending-off incident that wasn't.



I thought you had at least two tries chalked on after what seemed like clear forward passes. Luck evens itself out - or so they say.

And you looked like losing about ten seconds after James Roby appeared on the pitch.



Early season form means very little. We were the best team in the competition early last season. Huddersfield were one of the worst. Leeds were pretty poor, too.

As Jon Wilkin said - if Saints are playing this way at the end of the season then it's time to be worried. Not before.

We looked like a team playing a centre at stand-off, a stand-off at hooker and a winger as a strike centre with none of them having any aptitude for these roles.



Roby was crucial for two reasons. First his abilities - but perhaps more importantly he forced Saints into moving at least some of their players back into more familiar roles.

To be honest I thought the game-changer was Travis Burns getting himself binned. Up until that point many Saints players seemed to be strolling around the pitch as though they owned it. Certainly they weren't all that interested in shouldering the hard labour.

Burns was silly but in going toe-to-toe with a big forward he showed a few of our lads what it means to have some fire in your belly.

Travis gets a good deal of criticism and in some cases he deserves it. But the guy is unquestionably Hardcore.

Sorry I must have missed that last year's injuries were relevant to last night's match.

We won the league and prem double in '86 so should have stuffed you last night...

I'm not for sacking the coach and I would never judge a team this early.
That being said, that first half we were no were near a standard that anyone could say was average.
Ball's being thrown to no one, dropped balls people bunched together in attack like school boys all following the ball.

It was woeful.

For me Swift stood out as one of our better players. Thought dawson did ok, but can't see why we would not just play Turner there and fages as hooker???

Turner has a huge boot on him and maybe we need to use that more, but he can do 2 or 3 kicks from the centre position.
I get why he is being played at stand off as he is a strong runner, but in the middle of the park those strong runs are easily nulified. I'm not sure burns is the answer either at stand off as he brought less to that role last year than Turner.

I think fages (a half back) is the only player who we have not tried at halfback.

Wilkin can do a job, but admits he is not a natural there
Burns seems to lose his impact
Turner offers running and a big boot but is ineffective and it also means we have to patch up the centres with less attacking threats.

When Roby came on the organisation of the teams attack smartened up almost immediately. Losing Kelly stopped Hull KR scoring, but we were not looking like we were going to threaten much either. Roby got us rolling and into positions to be effective.

It's scary how much we are dependant on him and how little capability there seems to be without him.
We may have talkers across the park, but few who can on their own take action that will actually change a game.
I've no idea what we practice, but at the moment it's not good enough.

As always I'll give it the first 10 games, before I put any nails in the coffin or any pedestals out to place people on.

The point is - no one cared when we had injuries so I'm not going to lose any sleep over yours.

If it were impossible for teams to win with several injuries this debate might lead somewhere. But it isn't. Likewise, teams with no injuries often turn in terrible displays.

It's a factor - sure. But how much of a factor neither you nor I nor anyone else has the faintest idea.

Roby is very important to our side. But it wasn't just Roby who turned things around for us.

Luke Walsh looked twice the player the moment he started getting quick and accurate service out of the dummy half.

We have to look at this problem less as a function of individual strengths or weaknesses and more in terms of the team and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

It's not that Walsh upped his game necessarily. It's just that he's a far less effective player when he has little of note to work with in other key positions.

Which in itself points to the way the team is organised and coached.

Win is a win I suppose but when you look at the context it's a massive worry.

Defence is just a mess at the minute. Cunningham's middles are just not as good as he thinks. Hull KR cut ribbons through the middle time and time again in the first half. Let's just be glad that Kelly had to leave the pitch. I've lost count of how many tries we have conceded in the last three games through really poor defence.

Attack isn't great either. I've never seen a team move as slow before with as little penetration.

Real worry and with the way Castleford played last week we could be in for another drubbing

Coaching is important. But you can't coach Jordan Turner to reach a level of proficiency at stand-off which will bring the best out of Luke Walsh. Nor can you do similarly with Burns at hooker and Dawson as a strike centre.

Shannon McDonnell looked pretty rusty last night. But he instantly showed enough natural ability at running lines of support to make me think (provided he's clear of injury) we'll play significantly better. It goes without saying that Roby gives us plenty more options and should fate shine on the club and return Lomax at anything like his previous abilities we'll be a long way toward having genuine playmakers calling the shots in the backs rather than one man and a bunch of make-weights.

I really don't think people appreciate how much the club has been forced into making serious compromises losing Walsh, Lomax & McDonnell long term with Roby adding to the mess this season. We certainly shouldn't think of our standard of play with the likes of Turner at stand-off as representative of what we are capable of achieving with at least some of our key men dictating play on the field rather than sitting on the treatment table.

I don't know why you should think that all the so called top clubs have come back into the pack also form in the first month of the season has no reflection on the spoils at the end of the season. Roby wasn't fit enough to play 80 mins, if he had we might have started a bit better and put 40 points on your team, we will just take it as a dodgy win and not a quality win because both are still worth 2 points.

Quick ball is indeed important to Luke Walsh as it helps him stay even further away from the defensive line he is terrified of.

One of the softest players I've ever seen. And I don't buy the argument that 7s don't have to ever take the line on, because good ones do or everything is too predictable. How many times did Thurston take the ball into contact last weekend? I'd venture it was 10+

With their 17, and then losing Albert Kelly, we'd have done well to have lost last night.

I found the team bizzare. Bringing in Greenwood and putting Turner in the centres for the Roosters game, the best team we will play all year, to then change both the week later just seemed crazy. Turner is an okay runner, can boot the ball downfield but his passing with anything over 2 yards is embarrassing. Dawson had a good go but KC needs to swallow his pride and get Turner back at centre and Fages or Burns at 6.

With the ball in hand i thought we were okay. In the first half despite the scoreline we seemed almost ambitious with the ball at one point which made me uncomfortable as i wasnt used to it. Second half we steamrolled them in the forwards and Roby brought out the best in those around him. I have no problem playing the type of forward game we played in that second half as it was effective and well carried out, we even ran in pairs!

The defence throughout was a farce really. Wilkin missing 6 tackles, Peyroux 5 and Vea 5 or 6 (haven't got the stats up at the minute). Kelly looked like opening us up at will and we'd of struggled if he'd of stayed on.

I thought in terms of positives the back 3 were excellent. All made decent metres (166 from swift!) and all got at least a try or an assist (Makinson andd SMD with both). Walmsley and Amor brilliant as ever.

Defence needs to be miles better for next week but that's 2 points we haven't had for years. Hopefully the defence tightens up next week the attack keeps improving as i believe last night was slightly better.

I don't think you are being fair to the guy. When he arrived and before he got injured Walsh had no problems with taking on the line. Since he's been unwilling to get caught in possession with the ball.

But that's perfectly understandable given the terrible injury he sustained. The human brain has a tendency to remember agonizing pain and encourages us to avoid it in the future. It's a survival instinct which is pre-programmed into if not all living species then certainly human beings.

At the back end of last season I was scathing of Walsh's defence. It really was terrible. Since then I think he's worked hard at his game and he's nowhere near the liability he was back then.

But it takes TIME to get over these things. Lots of it. Walsh might not be at 100% effectiveness but he's at least showing signs of going in the right direction. Cut the guy some slack.