That's exactly what us Wigan fans were thinking about Saints back around 2005/6/7. I think the secret is the culture within the club. Back then Saints were winners of the highest order and the big players lead the way and brought out the best in the youngsters and the players deemed as 'average'. They had a similar culture to what Wigan have got now and that's a 'no excuse' and 'expectant' one where any player that pulls on a first team shirt is expected to put in a shift and play for the team regardless of their age or ability. They will be helped along by those around them but nobody is a passenger and not one player is allowed to just make up the numbers.

Too many Saints players are just drifting along at the moment. The older heads like Wilkin and Wellens are trying to lead the way but they're both past their best and must massively miss the days of being generals in a team commanded by guys like Cunningham, Long and Sculthorpe. To think I remember Good Fridays of Wigan trying to beat Saints teams with a 1,3,4,6,7,9 and 13 of Wellens(in his pomp), Lyon, Talau, Pryce, long, Cunningham and Sculthorpe with the small matter of Roby on the bench and now in those spots today we've faced Makinson, Turner, Percival, Wellens, Wilkin, Howarth and Walker. Now granted theres a couple of injuries but my god that is some drop off! every team has had a drop in quality of some sort but that's scary!

And that comes down to recruitment. Lets look at our match winners over the last couple of decades, Martyn, Long, Scully, Lyon, Goulding, Newlove to name but a few - all brought in from other clubs. Front rowers of the likes of Ward, Fairleigh, Britt, Cayless - again brought in from elsewhere. With the exception of Wellens, Cunningham, Roby, Graham and Lomax....who else can you say has come through the system to hold their own in that bracket. As good as our younger sides are, we do seem to produce a certain kind if player. If you want real top class match winners, I think a lot of it is luck, but it comes down to a recruitment strategy that can spot talent but also a club that is prepared to do anything to get their man.

When Crusaders folded, are you telling me there was nobody worth taking a punt on? All the other clubs were circling but we seemingly sat back and watched. Sammut surely would have been worth a look? Why have we never been in the hunt for Danny Brough at any stage of his career? Don't get me going on why Greg Eden ended up at HKR. There is only so much you can do from within, the likelihood of Saints having a squad full of future top class international talent sat in the u19's is remote to say the least, so we need to be looking elsewhere to bolster what we have. Yes we have been in transition since the glory years but our lack of recruitment over the last 4-5 years has been shocking and nobody at the club can deny that. The issue for me is that we will lose fans if the team continues on the same downward spiral when it comes to playing talent. The problems we are facing, with a lack halves and decent front rowers is our own making. Poor recruitment decisions that are coming back to haunt us. Unless NB is given a broom and a blank cheque book at the end of the season, I fear we may be in the same situation in 2-3 years time.

I was saying in the first half yesterday when Wigan were actually moving up in a line that there was nobody in the Saints side who I felt could pull off that bit of magic and create something like a Long, Martyn, Sculthorpe or Lyon might have. Your only attacking move was an offload, most of which you dropped and you bombed the two big chances you got.

Second half we let you back into the game and you made a few breaks and caused us a few problems which TBH disappointed me slightly because we made what should have been a simple win look difficult.

Why on Earth you've let Gaskell go I have no idea. Has he been up to no good? He murdered us in the playoffs in 2011 and quite why you've been picking the likes of Hohaia, Wilkin and now even Wellens ahead of him in the halves is as big a mystery as where Lord Lucan went.

There is a lack of quality throughout Super League. The likes of Scully, Long, Cunningham and Lyon are once in a generation players especially playing together at the same time. Compare this Wigan side to the one 10 years ago it is nowhere near as good. They had the likes of Radlinski, Renouf, Dallas, Lam, Furner, Farrell, Newton and many others. We have been unfortunate over the past few years in our retention and recruitment. With hindsight we may have kept Smith, but I was in the get rid camp, not good enough for Saints. We had Eastmond just bursting on the scene back then, we still had Leon, Wheeler and Gaskell looked like they were going to be class. If Eamonn had a crystal ball he may have offered him a deal, he doesn't he has a salary cap to adhere to, professional sport is brutal, even more so with a strict and small salary cap.

The issue is that its not a one off. We let Long go because we had Eastmond, but we told Long and Smith to go, before we nailed Eastmond down long term. So Eastmond then held us over a barrell and just signed a 2 year deal. That is poor negotiating by any standard, we should have sealed Eastmond to 4 year before telling Long and Smith to go. I also felt that Eastmond was more an individual than an organiser and his kicking game was limited, so it still left us unbalanced.

Even if Union had come in after 2 years, with a longer deal, we could have gone shopping with any buy out from Union.

Leon from the reports on here wanted a 3 year deal, we could all see Eastmond was going and only had Lomax and Gaskell left, who at that time were not at their best. So Pryce left and we then went and offered Lance (not a half) a 4 year deal, to take him well into his 30's at a position that we have let so many good players leave. After telling Long and other that we don't do more than 1 year deals for over 30's. (that's been thrown out now. ie Manu)

We also let Ellis go during this time.

Now with only bare bones left we have let Gaskell go. Leaving us with one injured half.

So we have in the last 3 years let go of

Long, SMith, Ellis, Pryce, Eastmond, Gaskell. That's an embarrasment of riches!

Does Eamonn scout and recruit saints players? Do we know this?

Or is it the responsibility of someone else at the club, playing staff maybe?

I don't know the answer, be nice to know.

I'd imagine he has final say as he has to balance the books and sign the cheques but you'd like to think he's listening to his staff. At the end of the day it doesnt really matter though as he is ultimately accountable as the owner/chairman.

I'd love to know whats gone on with Gaskell though. To go from being bigged up and first choice stand off to packed off to Salford in a matter of weeks is strange to say the least.

A question I've been asking for years. I wonder how much involvement the likes of Kel Coslett, Keiron Cunningham, Mike Rush and Neil Kilshaw have with recruitment. Reading some of the stuff about the Lance Hohaia deal, including bits in the programme by Lance and Eamonn themselves, it would seem he was solely responsible for that one.

Lance was out and out a signing made in attempt to appease the fans following the loss of Eastmond. Trouble is, whoever said yes was hoodwinked by Lance and his agent who promoted him as a half back.

What's sad is that Eastmond didn't get a 4 year deal but Lance did. Crazy bit of business.

The one light at the end of the tunnel for me is that the World Cup at the end of the year may unearth some south sea island talent that nobody knows of. If we don't make a speculative signing or two on this basis, I'd be even more sceptical about our recruitment policy. There has to be another Faasavalu out there somewhere.

Sam Moa was one prop who was worth a punt after the 2008 WC, the people in the know at Saints didn't think he was good enough. After a stint at Hull he is now plying his trade as a starting prop for Sydney Roosters. We need that kind of foresight and take a few risks as top line Aussies arent coming back to SL. We need to be inventive.

Well McManus is CEO as well as owner, I think Rush may have more say than many think, I'm sure he decides if anyone wants to invest new money into the club.

I'm convinced Rush has a lot of say. Given that it was to Rush McManus turned after he sacked Simmons, I would posit that Rush is very much the Chairman's man.

Rush is main man at saints he is the CEO

I agree up to a point. However, while I think there's always the potential of picking up a good threequarter or forward from the islander teams, quality half-backs are much rarer amongst the islanders. And I think it's now pretty much universally accepted that our problem is our lack of halves.

No, he's the High Performance Manager.

Moa's not the only one. There's plenty of players who've come to 'lesser teams' in SL that we would have benefited from, in recent years. L. Paea, Mika, Taia, Heremaia, Manuokafoa, Sammutt, Hanbury, Poore, Kaufusi, McDonnell, Kearney, Lulia, Burns, the list goes on...

No dont agree with most of them.
Obviously Hanbury and Sammut stand out like sore thumbs,especially comparing them to Lance.
Maybe Manuokafoa and Poore at a push but the rest meh.

Dudson, Taylor and Flower have been decent signings at Wigan.

If you look at it on paper, some of it hasn't been too bad.

It's turned out that way on the field mind but for example im 90% certain Perry played SOO the season before we signed him. I'm not having it there were many complaints when we brought in a SOO prop forward.

Same with world cup winning fullback Lance Hohaia, it was only Saddened really who, rightly, called it.

On paper the two that get the most scrutiny(deservedly so) at the time didn't IMO look like bad options. It just didn't materialise. I have it on good account that Perry is the highest earner at the club, and i'm guessing Hohaia and Laffranchi are up there. With hopefully 2 of these 3 gone in the offseason I hope we can put it right.

Letting Pryce go and bringing in Hohaia a massive mistake that shouldn't have been made. Yes, Pryce had been through a nightmare period of injuries in the 18 months leading up to his departure, but he's done very well for Catalans, and has stayed relatively injury free (I think).

Letting Pryce go was exactly the right decision IMO. At the time he had hardly played in two seasons and then wanted a longer contract than we were prepared to give him. He has stayed relatively injury free in France but that could have gone either way and they took a chance on him. I'm glad we didn't.

It was right that we gave Lomax and Gaskell an opportunity in the halves as they were both home grown halfbacks who had been on the fringes for a while, particularly Lomax. That neither has worked out as a halfback is unfortunate but clearly how it is. In the meantime we have let two other halfbacks go. We may well have an up and coming halfback awaiting a debut but whether they will get any game time this season I don't know. We will probably just go out and buy some unknown antipodean.

It must be the Easter weekend , but one again I find myself in agreement with SaintsFan . We let Pryce go for good reason he was dogged by serious injury and resigning him would of been a gamble.

It was a decision I think most of us could understand at the time. Personally I was gutted as I think he's still one of the best attacking players in Super League at the moment, but his injury record was a big concern.

What you don't do though is let a player go when you've not got a player coming in to replace them. At that stage we didn't know how Gaskell and Lomax would go. It all then goes completely pear shaped with the signing of Lance Hohaia.

It just seems to me that we sign overseas players in the same way you would employ someone in a business environment. You look at their CV as proof of their ability. It explains the signings of Perry, Laffranchi and Hohaia perfectly. All of them have outstanding CVs. Perry had won 2 NRL Grand Finals, played 211 times in the NRL, most as starting prop, played 5 times for County then progressed to play 3 times for New South Wales in Origin and played 4 times for Australia.

Anthony Laffranchi had played 204 times in the NRL scoring 50 tries. He'd won a Grand Final and scored the winning try in an Origin game. He played 4 times for County and 4 times for New South Wales. He also played 5 times for Australia and regularly topped 40 tackles, including in an Origin game.

Lance Hohaia played 185 times for New Zealand Warriors, played in an NRL Grand Final and is a World Cup winner.

You cannot argue with those CVs, they are top class. Had someone with a little rugby knowledge looked at the players in depth however, they would have seen how poor and unsuitable the players were for the recruitment needs we had at the time. Josh Perry had suffered a couple of serious injuries and was on his way down, struggling a lot in his final season in the NRL. Laffranchi was a player who had played his entire career in the backrow. He was signed and asked to play as a prop forward despite not being big enough, hard working enough or strong enough mentally to do the job to a decent standard. Lance Hohaia is perhaps the most costly mistake we've made with our recruitment. He primarily played fullback for New Zealand Warriors, played a year at centre, filled in at hooker for a season or two. He played fullback for New Zealand and occasionally hooker from the bench. One position he almost never played despite his utility value was half back. Yet we sign him to play there. It's three bizarre recruitment decisions that mystify and frustrate the fans and I don't believe anyone with any rugby knowledge was involved in any of the decisions.

I get a lot of stick on here for criticising players, but those three are probably in the top 4 earners at the club and contribute very little value.

If you remember 3 to 4 years ago Mc Manus made a club statement that the policy or model for the club was to promote success through the youth within the club. This by nature mean,t Rush had more responsibilty and pressure to deliver and develop the younger players within the club. This adopted policy also gave Mc Manus the opportunity to tighten the purse strings on contracts transferring expenditure to the new stadium.

This is where problems manifested itself, we lost the culture within the club once the last of the immortals (Cunningham) hung up his boots, we also lost a possible 5 year half back partnership with Eastmond and Wheeler.
A Lomax and Gaskell partnership looked a possibiilty in 2011, but its taken 3 coaches to realise that lack of creativity was not a recipe for success.

The days of signing a top class half back from OZ/NZ are now gone, perhaps the club has hit this obstacle first and need to find the right formula, because I,m sure most of the other superleague clubs will experience the same sooner than later.

Did they ever start? I can't think of many established NRL half backs that moved to an English club, even if you go back years. The only ones that came over were troubled individuals (Who will still be coming).

The younger NRL players who aren't getting a shot in the team because of the outstanding players ahead of them are the ones we need to be looking at. The next Scott Dureau or the next Michael Dobson. They will still be there.

There is no doubt we are lacking at half back and a good scrum half we see us challenge for a trophy. I feel we have to be very careful. Matty Smith was not the answer at Saints and still wouldn't be, he would not be the maverick scrum half we need. Saints don't seem to have the same attacking structure as Wigan. At Wigan their attack is very robotic, but highly effective and Matty Smith fits into that structure well, he is not an off the cuff maverick scrum half that we need. Saints style is different, we have tried this attacking structure rubbbish, the best scrum halfs at Saints have not been robots ala Matty Smith, but off the cuff, play what is in front of them, natural scrum halfs, natural rl players like Goulding, Holding and Long. Smith fits in well with the structures at Wigan, we have no structure! Our tries will tend to be off the cuff efforts like Makinson's or barge overs due to weight of possession such as Meli's and Clough's on Friday. Once we identify that player, whoever it may be I have no idea we will be a strong side. Imagine a Bobby Goulding with Willie Manu, Puletua and Soliola running off him, they would have field day. That is the type of scrum half we need.