It's times like this that I almost wish I hadn't blocked her ramblings for the sake of my own sanity... I mean - "they're not the best team, they're just the best at winning trophies"

My aching sides... Pure comedy gold...

While the is a play off system it obviously doesn't matter where you finish just as long as you make the play offs.

Every team knows the situation and its all about coming good when it matters. Warrington would IMO finished top of the league thus year if that's how you become champions but how do we know Leeds wouldbt go all out for top spot if that's what required to be champs.

It's no fluke that Leeds won it again.

I think everyone defines success in one way: winning silverware. Since we have won the most silverware so far in the superleague era, ergo we are the best team in the superleague era. That will change as time passes but just now we are still the best team in the superleague era.

Saints are still hanging on there as the greatest team in the super league era, its just that we have won a fat zero in the last 5 seasons. We are pretty close to having won twice as many trophies as Leeds. Think we have about 18 trophies in our super league history where Leeds I'm not sure but I think they have just hit double figures.

They'll be in the discussion with us and Bradford.

I think we have 12 now if we include the LLS and WCC

Just checked on Rugby League Project website yes you are on 12 trophy's in total.

Some more interesting Stats Leeds are close on Wigan for super league match wins. Saints 351 wins from 493, Wigan 331 wins from 493, Leeds 325 wins from 493. (Warrington not worth considering at the moment 233 wins from 46icon_cool.gif

So we've even got the most wins as well eh?

We're definitely still the best team in the Superleague era!

What about the "salary capped era".
Which teams come out on top then?

Probably us as well I imagine given that we're the only team to have finished in the top four every year since its introduction.

I was speaking in terms of a 'team' as a group of players. If we are talking as a club then Saints are still in there in the trophy running.

When you talk about a great team you tend to look at a generation of players, a cohort. The greatest cohort would be Wigan, when you look at how many trophies they pulled in with that generation of players. Of course there is turn over and from year to year some players drop in and out. But the main players tend to stay the same.

If you lined up the team of say Long, Scully et al, you would not include trophies won under previous players like prescott and Goulding. There is some cross over of course, but I think Saints because of their consistency have this cross over more than most. But I would not include the whole of our SL wins as a measure of a certain team (group of players).

For example the bulls had some great teams, as did widnes, but when you are looking at the greatest of all time you would not include times when those players were not playing. So the Bulls team up to 2005 would be in the running for the greats. Just because a different team and set of players have not carried on that mantle I don't think it reflects on the previous cohort of players.

So sorry for not being more narrow in my initial definition, but I was looking at the team as a cohort, not as a club. So for example in a school you will have a cohort of pupils. That cohort maybe the best in the schools history and give it results that top the tables. But it does not mean the school will have the best history of all schools.

So I did mean this Leeds cohort, not the club as a whole over the full 17years of SL.

In fact I have just looked back to my OP, and I did state at the time that I was talking about a squad of players, not the club itself.

It was others who started talking about club records.

Damn fine team Leeds. However there's two major trophy's on offer every year. One of which Leeds haven't won since 1999. And some want to call them the greatest!

It's a forum. So it's open for debate. I did not say the greatest. Just possibly the greatest team in the SL era.

On that basis, as the quality of superleague players has detoriated I think we will be looking at Bradford or St Helens between 2000 to 2006.

We can only really discuss club records beacause teams change every year.

Nine of the Leeds players who played in their 2007 win v Saints played in their 2012 win v Wire.

Don't forget, they also won it in 2004 and were losing finalists in 2005.

Leeds are the most successful Rugby League side in Super League History so therefore answers the question. Leeds have been truly outstanding in the play offs since 2007 with only 2010 being there only non apperance in the Grand Final.

I did relpy to this, but made a right pigs ear of it by editing your post rather than quoting it.

The point I was making was that you can discuss the team, just the same way that you would discuss a cohort of pupils. etc etc

Just to bring you up to speed, Saints are on 18, Leeds have just made 12.

Currently Superleague history is 1996 to 2012 not from 2007, unless you have been watching for only the last 5 years, if this is your personal timeline then you are correct.

In the Super League era Saints are the most successful team and it's an honour we should be very proud of. We've managed to sustain a period of longevity and still remain near the top despite losing some great players in the last 5 years.

But Leeds have won 5 Grand Finals in 6 years. FIVE in SIX years! The Grand Final is ultimate game, unlike the CC you have to beat your strongest rivals to win the competition and what they have done is unprecedented in this modern era.

I can't help but agree.

To reach the grand final 5 times in 6 years is an achievment in its self, to win every one of them is outrageous.

I would agree with this being fair and balanced point of view.

I think everyone it talking at cross purposes. Some are talking about club records, others are talking about this years players, others like me are looking at the team as a cohort of players or a generation of players. So we can all quote the number of trophies won, but they are not all won by the same generation of players, even if they are won by the same club.