Gates just irritate people. We've done it to death about how it can be governed by proper stewarding. KEEP THE CONCOURSE OPEN! It was designed for free flow let's keep it that way.

Saints don't half know how to make a straightforward situation utterly confusing!



If I was in your position I would be taking a trip to Langtree Park ticket office and asking for confirmation that my non-season ticket ticket is still valid! But maybe I'm just more paranoid than you.

In light of the issues identified at the Widnes friendly its sensible to operate with a reduced capacity in the terraces.

I expect this to stay in place until Saints can show to the authorities that they can adequately police those stands in a safe manner. Once that is achieved then the club can apply for further capacity extensions to our safety certificate

If we have further issues in the terraces at the Salford game then we can expect a further reduction in terrace capacity.
Season ticket holders in the West stand will need to be on their best behaviour, otherwise they may find they no longer have a place on the terraces, as the authorities could decide that the capacity of the terraces needs to be reduced further.

I just hope the Merseyside safety authorities take a sensible approach to the terracing rather than taking a draconian safety approach. It would certainly look daft if Warrington with a smaller end terrace, were allowed more people to stand in their end terrace than Saints, merely because of differences in interpretation by local authorities on what is and isnt safe.
It also has to be said that these type of shenanigans would not have cropped up with an all seater stadium. Not that i favour such things.

Actually, no. It is the season ticket holders/other ticket holders from stands outside of the West Stand that need to be on their best behaviour as they were the reason one end of the West Stand was overcrowded and we are now having this difficulty!

Us West Standers were very good boys and girls, thankyouverymuch.

What was the original idea behind having open concourses? If it's just for the sake of people to "mingle" at half time then surely it's better/easier to segregate the concourse as well as the stands? If having open concourses is going to result in you working under a reduced capacity then surely it isn't worth it? Not trolling btw just 1st time I've read that there was this freedom around the concourses and the problems it seems to be causing.

Apparently it was the Chairman's idea. He thought it would be nice for fans to meet up with people located elsewhere before the match and during halftime. It is a great idea and it worked a treat until some idiots decided not to go back to their stand and subsequently ruined the experience for everyone else.

The trouble arises because we have terracing. Had the stadium been all seater then there is no way people could have sneaked into another stand. The best option would be to install card readers at the West and East Stand entrances but that would be expensive no doubt and so ultimately I can see West and East Standers being asked to show their season ticket/ticket in order to get back into those stands.

Perhaps until they figure out a longer term solution the club has stopped selling West Stand tickets for the Salford match (saying only season ticket holders can go in there) and started selling tickets to Saints fans for the East Stand, which is the nominal away end.

Is there not a bar that fans/season ticket holders can use before the game? It seems a lot of trouble for the sake of 15 minutes at half time. It would also be pretty time consuming for the stewards to check everyones tickets. I'd be pretty annoyed if I went down for a pee at half time and then had to join a queue to get back in to the stand. If each stand's concourse has the same facilities then surely there's no need for this. It's likely you'll be sat/stood with your mates during the game anyway. I guess the Widnes game was there to find niggly problems like this but if something so trivial is going to potentially affect your SL attendances then surely it's best to knock the idea on the head?

Also, letting your fans use the away end against Salford to make up for the limited capacity in the west is a very good idea, if our friendly against them on Tues is anything to go by there'll be plenty of room in there for you!

I'm going on Saturday, I have just looked at the ticket again (the first one I bought) and it's got a different name on it (possibly a S T holder??)

Its not just the 15 minutes interval it's the hour or so before the game when potentially a lot of revenue could be lost if they meet up for a drink beforehand and choose to go elsewhere. There's people I would want to meet up with that are in other parts of the park and I welcome that freedom of movement not to be segregated like animals in a zoo. So it's not that trivial in some peoples minds!

There appears to be some quite harsh criticism of some fans here based on what?

Has anybody confirmed that fans moved from the seats to this stand? I saw that they thought this may have contributed, but it sounds pretty unlikely to me.

Why would fans pay for seats and then move to the terracing? How many of them did so, as surely it would have to be quite a large amount doing this to cause a problem?

I’d be stunned if you suddenly got scores of people deciding to change stand, it doesn’t make sense.

At Warrington on opening night there were problems with terracing as fans don’t move to all of the spaces available, especially when the entrances are low down as you simply can’t see them. Strong stewarding is needed and this is now in place at Warrington, although too late for the higher capacity.

To attack a group of fans when nothing has been proven is strange to say the least.

Tickets now available for Hull game.

Based on feedback from the club, who will have had feedback from the stewards.

Those of us who have season tickets in the West Stand and who value the relaxed nature of the concourse and want to see it continue have every right to criticise those fans who have put the whole thing in jeopardy by deciding to stand with their buddies/take a look from a different angle/whatever motivated them to change stands.

If fans have crossed over into the West stand from where ever when we played Widnes, the club would have learned very little about the safe capacity of the West stand, not knowing how many crossed over. So it looks like the club have to try again not knowing the true number in the stand against Widnes, they will start with a reduced number against Salford, and no movement from one area to another, this will give a more accurate figure of what the stand holds.
Against Widnes about 80 fans were moved out, who knows if there is room against Salford (and there should be) could we see fans being asked to move back into the West stand, at half time to gauge things even better, just a thought that last bit.

It cant be a massive problem, only about 80 fans were moved out of the West stand, counted most of them, but its a safety issue, and it needs to be sorted.

But you don't know how many moved from the North/South Stands to stand in the West, and that is a problem. The only safe way is to segregate the four areas, =#FF0000most people will be in the same areas as their friends/family anyway.

Here we go some knowledgeable person who hasn't even set foot inside the place telling us it's the ONLY safe way.
It beggars belief!!

Set up barriers between each area to a height of 4 foot. On top of the barriers fix a worktop such as found in any kitchen. People can meet with friends and chat across the 'bar' without trespassing, then go back to their own seats/stands whilst always being kept apart but still being able to socialise.

Simples, and only a small cost (relatively) compared to losing a thou off the west stand gate due to safety issues.

You are making a massive assumption that all the people that can't get a west stand ticket will just decide not to go. Presumably some will buy more exoensive tickets and some will go in another standing area. Also the 2000 figure sounds rather large.

So Salford fans are being expected to pay £5 more than they would've paid in the east terrace?

I doubt that. I would imagine, though obviously I don't know, that since the arrangement was initiated by Saints, Salford fans will pay only what they would have paid in the East Stand. But they'll get a seat instead.

2000 may well be rather large. That's why I said 'say'. I was just giving an example. But, say, we could have sold 18,000 tickets for the Salford game, like the Chairman was hoping for (according to what he has said in the press). We definitely won't be selling that number now. So whether it is 2000 fewer or 500 fewer, the club will have lost money as they won't be able to sell 18,000 tickets.

Lets look at this with a bit of logic. Tickets were primarily available to season ticket holders and then later non-season ticket holders too. As I understand it, seating season ticket holders were not guaranteed their season ticket seats once the advanced booking deadline was passed. Therefore we can put the fans that entered the west stand without a standing ticket into three categories:

a) standing season ticket holders who bought a seating ticket but moved
b) seated season ticket holders who bought a seated ticket but moved
or
c) non-season ticket holders who bought seated tickets but moved

Whether it was because they wanted to sample the atmosphere from the different areas on what should have been a special night... because they wanted to stand with friends... or simply because they wanted to stand but were too late to buy a standing ticket only they know, but given the limited capacity of that game I can see why people might not have considered this a problem on the night, nor that it would have such a drastic effect on the capacity status for future matches. Inconsiderate? perhaps. Unsurprising given the circumstances and what we know about people not using their brains to their full extent? definitely not.

Looking at the three categories above I honestly don't believe that it will be an ongoing issue, certainly not something that some better stewarding can't help resolve. I'd like to know the percentages of how many tickets for the game were sold to season ticket holders vs non-season ticket holders. If the vast majority of tickets sold went to season ticket holders then I would suggest that a) and b) will not, or are at least unlikely to happen throughout the season, whilst the possibility of c) happening again is limited due to factors such as
the small numbers of unallocated seats available and could be helped by simply warning fans against moving stands when buying tickets/printed warnings on tickets/via the PA system/signs above the tunnels etc. Short of segregating the areas completely or perhaps doing so after kick off, you'd probably struggle to stop everyone from moving stands but we don't want segregation on the concourse anyway do we.

A bit of common sense is all that is really needed from the fans in future.

I'll also add that the West Stand didn't feel over capacity to me and it was clear that there was more room available towards the North West corner. I imagine better dispersal pre-kick off and at half time by the stewards & fans themselves would have helped in that aspect.

From where I was sitting in the South Stand, the West Stand never looked like full capacity at any time during the match. The siuggestion of people migrating over into the West Stand is probably an inaccurate one, this would have to be fans moving in there hundreds.
Obviously the problem was herding of the fans in the west stand due to the NW corner wetting condition and Stewards not strong enough to control the fan distribution.
One idea maybe is to barcode the non season ticket holders for the west stand so that they have access only through the North turnstile and therefore we have a chance of filling up the West Stand evenly. Obviously the cladding will alleviate the problem, in the meantime the West Stand fans and stewards should show some common sense and spread out to reduce the risk of a reduced capacity being a permanent one.

agree with all of that, and as others have said too, from my seat in the north the west stand didnt look full in the nw corner