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| The injuries are, IMO, the result of our recruitment policy. Rather than recruit senior pros we have replaced senior players and legends with kids. Having so many young players in your squad not only results in them being injured as they are regarded as senior players and are not protected appropriately but also in the senior players having to take on too much responsibility. Look at todays embarassing showing as an example. The kids missed just about every tackle they went into with the exception of Hale who did very well today. That led to players like Robes, Graham and Soliola running their blood to water to cover and ending up looking pretty vulnerable themselves. The senior pros in our squad are playing too many games and too many minutes in each game. This leads to..... injuries.
Can someone less important than me do an analysis of our squad and compare it to the rest of the league and see if my theory holds up at all. Do the other clubs have more established players than we do?
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| Quote ="steve"I am sick and tired of being "Proud" of the effort, although to be fair the defensive effort wasnt really there in the second half today. I am sick and tired of hearing about injuries and I am especially sick of reading on twitter about the new clique #rehabwolfpack. to me that smacks of comfort, its a group of players who are comfortable and to me dont appear to be putting enogh effort into getting themselves back into the team.
Fairplay to Flannel for trying today but what ARE our physios doing - they certainly aren't getting players ready to play. It's about time we had some honesty about WHEN we are going to see some of our senior players back. The physios say its all contact injuries but Kyle's certainly cant be classed as impact - but isnt there a bit of a vested interest from the physios to say its not their fault. We NEVER had this crisis when Apollo was our conditioner.
The kids need a rest - some of the seniors need a rest but it's not going to happen until some of these guys get their backsides onto the pitch - and the longer this goes on the worse it will get.'"
What a load of twaddle. We have injuries and that happens in a game as tough as this. I am sure the club and players are doing as much as they can. How can you blame the physios if you don't know anything about the particulars of their injuries? It's just silly and wasteful ranting about it especially when the team's effort has been exceptional so far this year. Some results may not have gone our way, however to be where we are given the problems we have had e.g. down to fifth and sixth choice half backs, the team should be pleased with where we are currently.
I am sorry to be so pompous and dismissive but moaning about something like this is unproductive and misguided.
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| Quote ="McClennan"What a load of twaddle. We have injuries and that happens in a game as tough as this. I am sure the club and players are doing as much as they can. How can you blame the physios if you don't know anything about the particulars of their injuries? It's just silly and wasteful ranting about it especially when the team's effort has been exceptional so far this year. Some results may not have gone our way, however to be where we are given the problems we have had e.g. down to fifth and sixth choice half backs, the team should be pleased with where we are currently.
I am sorry to be so pompous and dismissive but moaning about something like this is unproductive and misguided.'"
I'm sorry for expressing "twaddle" - Every team has a team of physio's yet dont appear to be suffering in the same way we have over the last (at least 3 years) I have not criticised the teams performances or effort - In fact the OP was sick beimng proud - they have done a marvellous job - but the problem as far as I can see is we are reaching a tipping point the defense is falling apart largely due to the volume of work the guys are doing.
It is unproductive it maybe misguided but I think it raises a valid question about why we are in this position and as a consequence suffering in such a way.
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| Quote ="steve"I'm sorry for expressing "twaddle" - Every team has a team of physio's yet dont appear to be suffering in the same way we have over the last (at least 3 years) I have not criticised the teams performances or effort - In fact the OP was sick beimng proud - they have done a marvellous job - but the problem as far as I can see is we are reaching a tipping point the defense is falling apart largely due to the volume of work the guys are doing.
It is unproductive it maybe misguided but I think it raises a valid question about why we are in this position and as a consequence suffering in such a way.'"
I understand that but we don't know anything about the injuries so why point the finger in the direction of something we know nothing about? For all we know the physios may be the best in the game and it's just a bad run of injuries. Stuff like that happens and there's nothing we can do about it. You're looking for blame when there might well be no blame there and what purpose does that serve?
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| Quote ="steve"I stood and clapped the team off the pitch tonight as I have done at every game (apart from Catelans). It is not the players on the pitch that are the issue, its the fact that we have a group of palyers who are not on the pitch despite the fact that we desparately need some new bodies. The kids are exhausted they have been stretched too far too soon, the seniors are nackered because they are working harder than they should be and are now making mistakes. We need someone to stop what is happening and make a difference - I dont know where that is comming from. I'm not Panicing...'"
Not having a go at you or anyone on this board, but there were those around us that really were talking as though we were in the position of Wakefield and our recruitment was appalling.
We had no half backs, zero. Each week we are having new combinations, so in terms of directing people around the park it's changing each week and today we looked as though we lacked direction and kept getting overloaded on Meli's side. That with Gardner, Ashe and Meli all moving around and chopping and changing, just gave Huddersfield and brough something to run at.
Having said that, apart from letting brough have a free run the first half was fairly solid. If Graham had passed the ball a little earlier it could have been 6-6 and who knows. As it was the 2nd half ran away. But unlike huddersfield we cannot rotate our hookers, we can't rotate our props properly. And we where even short in the 2nd row department.
We had makinson and armstrong on the bench 2 young backs. It was always going to be a tough ask. Maybe TP could have played, but maybe Royce is thinking, we have this 3 weeks of CC / Huddersfield / CC. If we lose to Huddersfield we are 2 point behind the top spot, why rush players back for this period. Better to let them get back at the right time with less chance of a repeat injury.
Next SL game we could have back, Lomax, Clough, TP, Flannery, Gaskell, Wheeler, Scott Moore.
That will give us a real half back pairing, It will give us 4 props, it will give us a chance to rotate Roby, It will allow wilkin to move back into the pack and possibly give meli a rest, as tonight he looked like he needed to be spelled as his mind had gone by the end of the game.
It's not just who we have out, but that others are having to play 70 - 80 minutes week after week and play in positions leaving gaps elsewhere.
I'd rather drop 2 points today and get fully fit players back in 2 weeks, than put Flanney on today to pick up a bigger knock, the same for other possibles, we need them back for a run of matches not one off's
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| Quote ="McClennan"I understand that but we don't know anything about the injuries so why point the finger in the direction of something we know nothing about? For all we know the physios may be the best in the game and it's just a bad run of injuries. Stuff like that happens and there's nothing we can do about it. You're looking for blame when there might well be no blame there and what purpose does that serve?'"
So apparantly its a sort of "s*it happens - doh" according to you?
Problem is why is s*it happening to us a great deal more than to other SL teams?
Its worth looking for the answer rather than taking your fatalistic attitude.
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| Quote ="saint at wire"So apparantly its a sort of "s*it happens - doh" according to you?
Problem is why is s*it happening to us a great deal more than to other SL teams?
'"
How do you know that it is a problem with the physio?
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| I remember last year before the challenge cup final Tony smith said his players were conditioned to collisions similar to 50mph car crashes as that is the intensity of the challenge cup final. Maybe that is why you don't see them and some other teams take so Many contact injuries
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| Hay up Saddened ....Dont start moaning about injuries deal with it..
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| Quote ="McClennan"I understand that but we don't know anything about the injuries so why point the finger in the direction of something we know nothing about? For all we know the physios may be the best in the game and it's just a bad run of injuries. Stuff like that happens and there's nothing we can do about it. You're looking for blame when there might well be no blame there and what purpose does that serve?'"
The physios are the only constant - last 2 years we were blaming MP and the fact that the players were over weight and unfit, now under Royce there is no doubt they are "fitter" but suffering more and more with injuries.
This isn't just a bad run.
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| Quote ="steve"The physios are the only constant - last 2 years we were blaming MP and the fact that the players were over weight and unfit, now under Royce there is no doubt they are "fitter" but suffering more and more with injuries.
This isn't just a bad run.'"
It's really pi$$ed me off when everyone was bagging potter for the injury situation over his two years! And here we are half way thru royces first season and they are worse than ever.
Has any thought, it might not be the coach?
It's pretty obvious it's nothing either coach did wrong.
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| Quote ="knickers"we are all saying wait till we have most of the players back, but will this happen. so we get 3 players back then low and behold 2/3 players get injured in same game so back to square one. i dont think we have gone a game without us losing players every game. getting fed up of going to every game knowing more players are going to be injured and none returning.
'"
The key thing is to get the so called better players playing and the halfbacks.
I'm sure yesterday would have been a different game if two of lomax, Pryce or eastmond, Gaskell or wheeler was fit to play 6 and 7.
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| Quote ="St pete"It's really pi$$ed me off when everyone was bagging potter for the injury situation over his two years! And here we are half way thru royces first season and they are worse than ever.'"
You're missing the point. Royce cannot pinpoint a trend - he identified that himself, saying if it was quads, hamstrings or something then they could change what they are doing. Last season WAS quads! It was our trendy injury, do you not remember? There was a pattern to our injuries last season: they tended to be muscular. In Royce's book, that would mean something needed to change. This year, though, they are not all muscular. Only a very few are: three groins (though Perry is over his) and one hamstring. All the rest are contact injuries.
We remind me of Hull a few seasons ago. They were decimated by injuries and plummeted down the table. We could go the same way unlesss things change very, very quickly.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"The injuries are, IMO, the result of our recruitment policy. Rather than recruit senior pros we have replaced senior players and legends with kids. '"
Part of the problem with this is the new Stadium.
As we at the All Stars know, for the season preceding and a few years after the stadium does affect the balance sheet. Which leaves less for recruitment. Its a pain worth bearing because once the stadium is up and running you will reap the benefits for decades to come.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"The injuries are, IMO, the result of our recruitment policy. Rather than recruit senior pros we have replaced senior players and legends with kids. Having so many young players in your squad not only results in them being injured as they are regarded as senior players and are not protected appropriately but also in the senior players having to take on too much responsibility. Look at todays embarassing showing as an example. The kids missed just about every tackle they went into with the exception of Hale who did very well today. That led to players like Robes, Graham and Soliola running their blood to water to cover and ending up looking pretty vulnerable themselves. The senior pros in our squad are playing too many games and too many minutes in each game. This leads to..... injuries.
Can someone less important than me do an analysis of our squad and compare it to the rest of the league and see if my theory holds up at all. Do the other clubs have more established players than we do?'"
You make a fair point.
We've been very unlucky with injuries and it's easy to lay the blame with the physios and conditioners. Who knows, it may well be their fault, I don't know, I'm not a doctor. But it could also be that we have alot of players who aren't very druable and we have a pretty small squad? The likes of Roby and Graham don't pick up many injuries, so maybe we need to bring in some more players who are proven to be very durable to compliment the current players and young players we have, so we're not over reliant on certain individuals?
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| When Wigan appointed Maguire they also changed some of the backroom staff, Mark Bitcon was employed as chief conditioner, and employed staff to work with him.
They also invested in extra physios, a sports psychologist.They now have a gps system that lets them measure and analyse things like collision impact, players speed and distance etc, and have someone in place to analyse alll the data and report it back to the coaching team.
Sports science is a very big part of that Wigan set up. Does the same thing happen at Saints?
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| You could probably sum up our season so far in one word INSTABILITY. WE don,t really know what impact on new ground, new training, new coach, new conditioning is actually contributing each in a small way to the situation we are experiencing.
What concerns me at the moment is that we can,t rest players, the likes of Shenton, Roby, Graham and Sia need to be rested before the play offs. Our best bet is to target the Challenge Cup to rescue the season, I get the feeling a grand final is a bridge too far.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"When Wigan appointed Maguire they also changed some of the backroom staff, Mark Bitcon was employed as chief conditioner, and emplyed staff to work with him.
They also invested in extra physios, a sports psychologist.They now have a gps system that lets them measure and analyse things like collision impact, players speed and distance etc, and have someone in place to analyse alll the data and report it back to the coaching team.
Sports science is a very big part of that Wigan set up. Does the same thing happen at Saints?'"
Is Britcon the slap head with the giggs that sits with maguire and wane?
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| Quote ="Blobbynator"You make a fair point.
We've been very unlucky with injuries and it's easy to lay the blame with the physios and conditioners. Who knows, it may well be their fault, I don't know, I'm not a doctor. But it could also be that we have alot of players who aren't very druable and we have a pretty small squad? The likes of Roby and Graham don't pick up many injuries, so maybe we need to bring in some more players who are proven to be very durable to compliment the current players and young players we have, so we're not over reliant on certain individuals?'"
I remember pre season the players were conditioned to be more mobile and lost weight. Many of the players said they felt a lot fitter from it and were looking forward to the dry pitches. Maybe this has made them less impact resistant.........personally I think it's just bad luck that the injuries have hit all the pivotal players all at once.
Cunningham, Scully, Martyn, Long, Joynt had bucket loads of injuries but they were never all out of the game all at once as we are now experiencing.
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| Injuries happen, but what concerns me about the younger? "Twitter" players is their problem with sleeping? they seem to be up half of the night and when they are the tweet? I never remember not being able to sleep but then again we did not have twitter!
I may use twitter, but when it gets turned off that is how it stays!
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"When Wigan appointed Maguire they also changed some of the backroom staff, Mark Bitcon was employed as chief conditioner, and emplyed staff to work with him.
They also invested in extra physios, a sports psychologist.They now have a gps system that lets them measure and analyse things like collision impact, players speed and distance etc, and have someone in place to analyse alll the data and report it back to the coaching team.
Sports science is a very big part of that Wigan set up. Does the same thing happen at Saints?'"
As much as it disappoints me Rogues makes a valid point - I dont know the answer to these questions but again Paaaaat is another example of players comming back earlier for other clubs but never Saints...
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"WhenWigan appointed Maguire they also changed some of the backroom staff, Mark Bitcon was employed as chief conditioner, and emplyed staff to workwith him. They also invested in extra physios, a sports psychologist.They now have a gps system that lets them measure and analyse things like collision impact, players speed and distance etc, and have someone in place to analyse alll the data and report it back to the coaching team. =#FF4000Sports science is a very big part of thatWigan set up. Does the same thing happen at Saints?'"
Being updated as I type, 2 state of the Art Nintendo WII Sports packs are being ordered for the new stadium.
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| Quote ="St pete"Flannery played last week so it wasnt a case of rushing him back. He's been out injured so very commen to pick up niggly injuries.'"
But he wasn't in the 19 man squad that was named 2 days before the game. That would suggest he wasn't fit enough on Thursday.
Obviously they have taken a gamble to rush him back, probably down to desperation, and it as back-fired.
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| Quote ="Duke Eddington"But he wasn't in the 19 man squad that was named 2 days before the game. That would suggest he wasn't fit enough on Thursday.
Obviously they have taken a gamble to rush him back, probably down to desperation, and it as back-fired.'"
I asked this question on twitter and was told that Joe Greenwood was due to play but picked up an injury late in the week, which meant we put Flannery back in the squad.
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