It simply isn't any more. They changed the rules. It's an automatic yellow card if it's late. He was very late. Should have been a yellow.

Sorry but I think he was committed to try to get to wheeler. I've not seen it on tv but that was my first instinct.

Its funny for me that this should come up as I was watching the Leeds vs Bradford game last nigfht with a load of dire fans and many people were saying that the late challenge on a kicker seems to have been driven out of the game due to high profile publicity and harsh penalties.
In fact the concensus was that it had gone too far and most teams were not even bothering to attempt legitimate tackles on the kicker any more - presumably in case of being binned or sent off.

Now this happens and I've viewed it on the recording and its definately late by hoffman who knew exactly what he was doing but didn't seem malicious. (what was deadwood looking at when it happened??)

The result is however very bad (out for weeks if not months) even if the intention was not to hurt - I think any late tackle on the kicker, intentional or not needs to be punished strongly as they are so vunerable when in the process of kicking.

My heart goes out to Gary esp after all the injuries he's been through and he was on such a fine run of form.

That was the ref's interpretation too. Quite possibly it will be the RFL's interpretation also, when they review the match. But I think that was late, when bearing in mind other similar situations (which arise every match). It was also far harder than it needed to be. However, there will be no fallout for Hoffman and we lose a great player possibly for months.

He may have been. But it was very late. When it's that late it's a penalty, no matter what generation we look at. It was so late I don't think the ref even saw it happen.

Didnt the rfl say that you had to actually challenge for the ball and not just shoulder charge the kicker ?

Well, it was Silverdud. And linesmen are all as blind as bats.

AC, not ACL. My apologies.

That's what I thought the rule was.

The game is played at such a fast pace it's hard to call but from my view I thought he was committed.

We call refs for not letting the game flow and today it was about 20 mins before the first pen was given which also created a much better game today than the games with 40 pens in.

If your suggesting we now base penalties on how bad the player is hurt then rugby has big problems.

It's a high impact game played at a fast pace and them type of tackles will happen every game until the end of time.

The game is played at such a fast pace it's hard to call but from my view I thought he was committed.

We call refs for not letting the game flow and today it was about 20 mins before the first pen was given which also created a much better game today than the games with 40 pens in.

If your suggesting we now base penalties on how bad the player is hurt then rugby has big problems.

It's a high impact game played at a fast pace and them type of tackles will happen every game until the end of time.

Note, I'm not suggesting it was the worst tackle ever, just that under the current interpretations as handed down to the referees by the RFL, it should have been penalised and a yellow card. I didn't like the incident myself, it was cheap, far more forceful than it needed to be. The sport has moved on from being able to have a free shot at the little half backs when they kick the ball.

Jesus, this is rugby not chess

So rugby isn't tactical then?

Yes it is but it's also a rough tough game played by big angry men.

They don't need to be angry. They just have a certain hormone in them.

And tactics are exactly what Saddened was talking about.

Royce Simmons' tactics today were superb.

Given that Hoffman is from the Storm, I can well imagine what [ihis[/i tactics were all about.

I agree, royce had his tactics near spot on today. I thought jammer or Tony p or even both should have been on for the start of the 2nd half.

We needed all our big guns out there as we needed to weather the Wigan storm just after halftime.

I can also see why he had them off, he wanted the big men to have the extended rest at halftime.

I just think we should have had all our big guns on reDy for Wigan who we knew wound throw everything at us just after halftime.

I played league for 18 years and I wouldn't say I'm an angry man. Then again I got nowhere near a respectable level so maybe that was the problem.

Is it too late now?

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give Royce a call as he's looking for players

I disagree. In order for the big guns to be effective, they had to have a breather. At least one of them was playing on injections anyway (Jammer). It was better to let things slide at the start of the first half because that gave us chance to come back at them. Getting a lead only to be holding on without our most forceful and experienced players on the pitch would have probably opened the floodgates.

To which I also said I can see why Royce left them off to have a extended break with the halftime!

I bow down to your far greater rugby league know how and tactics!

Do you know the is a job going at Wigan RLFC ?

In fact, I strongly disagree! IMO Tony p and jammer or both should have come back on at halftime. IMO them 15 mins of the 2nd half was so important to saints.

And looking back, them 15 mins cost us the game.

Judging by your posts, I think your in with a shout

No no no, Having 2 players out of contention for the 2nd half cost us the game, having several injuries before the game cost us the game. Wigan did not have a look of scoring until our half back was taken out. Our final choice 13 where hammering their starting choice 13.

We were immense and there is nothing more to be said on the matter, or I shall declare shennanigins and fetch my broom.

So you are saying they should have played the full 40? Or do you think that miraculously we would have been better in defence and attack for the final 15 minutes than we were in the first 15 of that second half?