We need one good prop at the very least. TBH, I'd prefer two but I doubt there's any chance of that.

Would any of you object to Andy Coley (out of contract at Wigan and you're rumoured to be looking at him)?

Not if he was cheap and arrived as the second prop behind a huge Antipodean, no. If we let the players leave that we are and signed only Coley and Soliola I'd be mega unimpressed.

Fair enough! He could be on his way then!

Yes. A big, lazy pudding often to be found hiding in the centres. He makes Hargreaves look like a world-beater.

I'd take McCarthy-Scarsbrook ahead of him if the cockney-sparrer could be persuaded to trade pie 'n mash for pie 'n gravy.

www.smh.com.au/news/lhqnews/fear ... 50759.html Manly board dont seem that fussed if a bid came in.

www.smh.com.au/news/lhqnews/fear ... 50759.html Manly board dont seem that fussed if a bid came in.

"Often to be found hiding in the centres"

He's been at Wigan for 2 years and I've not once seen him hide in the centres. He is probably our best defender in the prop position and has rarely let us down tbh.

Gareth Haggerty and Mitchell Seargeant are two work horse props who would'nt cost the earth

i'd be very happy with kite in the vee, but it seems a bit of a long shot. The aussies can currently spend about 20% more than us on players, so why come here

To be fair, you're comparing him with Fielden !

And the defensive mountain that is Feka!

Saints are sniffing around our Richard Owen - replacement for Wellens maybe?

i hope we offer him a better deal so he stays and doesn't end up at saints!

We have the very promising Lomax for that, maybe they're after him as a winger to replace Meli?

Andy Coley? I know he's got his knockers but I think he always looks fairly handy when he plays against us.
If we had Graham, Kite, Coley and Fa'asavalu, I don't reckon many would stand up to us, especially with Tony P charging round out wide aswell!

Then get him bloody signed! Sounds like wishfull thinking, though.
However I'd be gutted if we missed out and he ended up at Hull.

As props go, I like Griffin at the Giants, very big and seems to run well.
LMS is a cracker, but there's no way the Quins would let him go. I always rated Wheeldon when he was at Hull, but I've not heard or seen much of him since he moved to KR.

Where do we stand on the overseas quota (I can't remember what number it is next year)?. If we were to sign Kite would we need to offload an overseas player? In this case Owen for Meli would make sense, although it it seems a little far-fetched as Meli is contracted for another year I think.


I think you're confusing him with Feka

We've currently got Flanders, Gidley, Meli and Tony P; We're signing Soliola and Cayless is leaving; Maurie doesn't count and am I correct in saying that the quota goes down by one each year?

I believe it does.

lazy pudding !!! he owned your big fat lazy ginger boy at Edinburgh this year!!!!

and dont know who you have been watching hiding in the ??? Fielden hides on the bench and Feka might be a pudding but a good one at that. Coley will do alright for you as your 4th choice prop. solid in defense and quite quick for a prop. would certainly catch Carvell .....

.

If cayless goes we have 1 overseas spot left so we could sign kite.

The following year we have to lose a overseas player but then gidley, meli and flannery would all be out of contract.

When does Meli hit the residency rule? does it still exist outside Bradford and Wigan?

is it after 5 years? Will he qualify? Not sure how it works?

they quota rules are 6 in 2010 and 5 in 2011. we have for next year:-
Gidley
Meli
Tony P
Flannery
Soliola
so we have a space avaliable for next year, in 2011 i doubt gidley and meli/flannery will be here so we should have room for some Man-Beast of a prop, please mr chairman

Don't think it still exists anymore.

If cayless goes we defo can replace him with overseas player for 2010.

In 2011 we need to lose 1 more but meli, gidley and flannery will be out of contract then.

I'd hope to replace all them.

Lyon for gidley would be nice.

Ian Lenagans explanation as posted on the Wigan site.

It is in reference to Wigan but the quota rules are explained.
Here's an explanation direct from Ian Lenegan:

IFL wrote: Quota and Federation-Trained Rules

Since there is a great deal of confusion on this topic on Wigan forums, it might be useful to know the correct facts plus how the recent changes affect Wigan.

The "Quota" rules have been around for some years now and are based upon a player's Passport only. EU and Kolpak Passport holders (eg: Samoa, Tonga...) are exempt from the Quota rules. The maximum number of Quota players at clubs is 5 and remains 5 for the known future.

Players such as Pat Richards, Tommy Leuluai, Feka and Harrison Hansen have never counted towards the Quota of 5 because of their European or Kolpak Passports.

Wigan’s 5 Quota players for 2009 are Phil Bailey, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps, Tim Smith and Mark Riddell. Four of those players are currently off-Contract at the end of 2009 potentially freeing up Quota slots from then on for recruitment. George Carmont plays for Samoa and is in the final stages of obtaining a Samoan Passport. This will remove him from the Quota allowing, as a consequence, 1 further Quota player for Wigan for 2009 and onwards.

The Quota system alone was deemed insufficient in practice to genuinely reduce the number of ex-NRL players who by 2007 made up 45%+ of Super League players (hence restricting progress of homegrown juniors) because of the wide availability of Kolpak/European Passports in the NRL.

With a similar problem of high proportions of “overseas” players in certain European Leagues, the European Football authority UEFA devised and had ratified as legal in the EU, a constraint system based not upon Nationality (which would be discrimination) but upon a method of “Federation-Trained” categorisation of players. UEFA has not had the Football Clubs’/National Associations’ support to go for player number restrictions and hence this method has not been tried in practice or challenged via the Courts.

Since the Super League Clubs voted with a very large majority in 2006/7 for further restrictions for the good of the homegrown game, the RFL developed the Super League Federation-Trained scheme which was announced in 2007 to apply from 2008. This set of Regulations applies to the Top-25 players at the Club unlike Quota which applies across the whole playing staff.

This Federation Trained scheme involves a parallel system of categorization of players working in addition to and alongside the existing Quota system. It also includes positive discrimination by specifying increasing requirement numbers in each Club’s 25 man squad for Federation-Trained players. As a direct consequence of this required increase in Federation players, there is a corresponding reduction in Non-Federation Trained players as follows:

2008 10
2009 8
2010 6
2011 5

In 2008 Wigan had 5 out of the allowed 5 Quota players (Trent Barrett, Phil Bailey, Tim Smith, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps) and 7 out of the 10 allowed Non Federation Players (Trent Barrett, Phil Bailey, Tim Smith, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps, Feka, Pat Richards).

Tommy Leuluai is exempt from Quota with a Samoan Passport and classed as being exempt from being Non-Federation Trained because of his 2 full years at Harlequins whilst 20 and 21. Harrison Hansen is exempt from Quota because of his English Passport and is Federation Trained at Wigan from 18 to 21.

For 2009, prior to the recent changes, Wigan had 5 out of the allowed 5 quota slots (PB, TS, GC, CP, MR) and 7 out of the 8 allowed Non-Federation slots (PB, TS, GC, CP, MR, PR, FP). If George gets his Samoan Passport, we could sign another Australian/New Zealander who would take up both a Quota slot and a Non-Federation slot taking us to 5/5 and 8/8. If instead we signed another Kolpak player, we would go to 4/5 and 8/8 and would not be able to take another Quota player because he would then take us to 5/5 and 9/8.

The two systems work well together to achieve the Super League Clubs’ objectives.

Unfortunately, a number of Clubs in the last few months of 2008 used the “we do not have enough overseas slots available” reason for not renewing certain players’ Contracts and at least one legal case was threatened based upon constraint of a player’s ability to earn a living.

To avoid the delays of an expensive potential legal challenge and to be scrupulously fair to players, it was decided recently by the ESL/RFL -with the unanimous votes of the 12 Super League clubs - to extend Federation Trained status to any players who had committed their future to Super League before the new Regulations were implemented. Since 50% of such current players are 30+ and unlikely to play many further years in Super League, the majority of these exemptions will work their way out quickly.

George Carmont, Pat Richards and Feka Paleaasina therefore become Federation Trained immediately and Phil Bailey at the end of 2009 taking us to 5/5 and 4/8 for 2009. Unlike most other clubs, Wigan has 3 out of 4 re-categorised Non-Federation players of a young age.

In practice, it means that Wigan can only sign more Kolpak players for 2009 since Quota is full, unless George gets a Samoan Passport.

These recent amendments mean a slight slowdown – perhaps two years – in the full effect of the new Regulations but, against the backdrop of a current shortage of experienced Super League players with the advent of two additional teams, some people think that might not be a bad thing for maintaining playing standards.

Wigan would have preferred not to grant the new re-categorisations because we had fully planned for them better than many other clubs. However, we voted for them for fairness to players and as the only sure way to ensure that the new Regulations would be implemented, albeit slightly slower.

We also believe that the requirement for Club-Trained numbers in the 25 player squad (within the category of Federation-Trained) to rise as follows:

2008 5
2009 6
2010 7
2011 8

will encourage development and utilization of more homegrown players and mitigate against widespread recruitment of additional Kolpak players anyway.

As far as Wigan is concerned, we continue fully with our youth-focused policy for the medium-term growth in quality of the squad, together with judicious use of a limited number of quality overseas players.

Ian Lenagan

That clears that up then!

Cheers for that Rogues ... very informative.