Wheeler does have a kicking game; I've seen it. He needs to practice it because when I have seen his kicks they have been a little too strong, but he does have a short kicking game. Wheeler also has an element of craft that Eastmond does not. Since this season is going to be a long one thanks to the ongoing injury of our experienced halfback, I would rather see Wheeler get an opportunity to show us his wares at halfback than continue with a half-hearted Eastmond who does nothing but attract the wrong kind of attention from fans and is obviously not going to start doing things like organising, creating and taking on the line. He can be our backline cover on the bench.


It may be the coach. However, it may be that the players have the wrong attitude. They just look like they did last season in defence. Well, they have to change their attitude in defence. They need to put 100% effort in for the full 80 and James Graham needs to stop thinking he is a halfback. They need to be in the faces of the opposition from the first second to the last second. Nothing less will do.

I noticed this on the Andy Wilson blog this morning:


Interesting!

But he'll need more than just knocking a few grubber kicks in occasionally, he needs a long kicking game and that's not somethign I've ever remember seeing.




I'm not sure on that, he does seem to have more of a sniff of the tryline, but the craft of putting people in?



He has taken on the line though, him taking on the line led to Meli's try on Friday. What he isn't doing is doing it when there is little or nothing on and trying to make a half break.

At this moment in time Wheeler and Gaskell would be as much of a failure as a half back combination as the current one is turning out to be, if not worse because at least Eastmond has experience of playing at 7 more than a handful of times.



We look worse than we did last season in defence, we were more intense last year. I think you're blowing the Graham thinks he's a half back argument out of proportion there, that's a cheap easy shot from poor journalists and opposition fans. He's the major metre maker in the team, if not the league at the moment (I've not checked the stats past the Wire game), if he was passing too much he wouldn't be doing that.

Then he isn't doing his job properly as coach if that is happening, the preparation isn't good enough. It also looks as if he's attempting to deflect criticsm elsewhere, if he's doing that this early is that a good sign?

Did you watch him in the u20s? I didn't, so I don't know whether he had a long kicking game there. Since I've only watched him at first grade level, I've only seen him play at centre, except in Cardiff. And he kicked a couple of grubbers during that match, but as I said, a little too hard.


I think so, yes. He also has guile. I liked the way he got us a penalty in Cardiff. He has a good rugby brain overall.


That was the only time he took on the line. That is very, very poor from a fullback. I agree with your second statement. However, that is precisely what we need him to do a lot of, especially with a rookie first grader in partnership.


I don't think it would be worse. It may well be better as Wheeler would work as hard as Gaskell, which would be harder than Eastmond is working at present. They will be an incredibly inexperienced partnership but I don't see how that is different from one incredibly inexperienced and one incredibly unengaged in partnership at present.


Elsewhere I've put the averages we shipped in last season and this, for the first five weeks. In 2010 it was 18.8, in 2011 it is 21.2. However, we began 2010 by shipping 32 points whereas in 2011 our highest shipment is 27. We only allowed Salford to score 6 last season; we were lazy in the last quarter this time out which has bumped up our average. So actually, there isn't a whole lot of difference in our defence to this time last season.


No it isn't. I kept noticing Jammer on Friday night. He was doing his hospital pass thing again and it is both annoying and unnecessary. He needs to focus on driving us forward and then, if the right opportunity arises, pass. When he is very selective and controlled with his passing he is fantastic to have on the park.

Did you read the RL press today? In it, Terry Matterson stated that last season Cas had had a problem with drinking at the club. That has now been sorted out. Whose responsibility is it to sort out those kinds of cultures? Coach, paymaster or both?

Besides,[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/st_helens/9424327.stmI think you'll find he's taken responsibility.[/url


I would think that also except that he has already publically taken responsibility for Friday night's showing. What he appears to be reflecting on is what is different between being away and being at home, as the players are more professional away from home. Any good teacher/coach will reflect upon these things in order to make changes in the future, to their own approach as well as to those they are responsible for.

Fans have been claiming our attack has been poor since Anderson. We're now under Simmons and fans are saying the same thing. That's three coaches. During that time our back line has hardly changed (as far as experienced pros are concerned). Which proves (not that it should need to be proved to anyone with more than a single brain cell) that any perceived attacking weakness in the backs (as far as TACTICS were concerned) could not be laid at Potter's feet.

In other words - the boo boys were wrong. And they should feel ashamed of themselves.

I didn't watch him that much, however the 7 was usually Eastmond or Smith during his time coming through the ranks rather than him, he was stand off, that suggests to me that he isn't a 7. He also played 7 against Wakey a few years ago and at half back against Hudds in his first appearance, I can't remember him making kicks in either game.



He has, but that doesn't mean that he'll be any good at 7. He's also not reliable enough injury wise to build enough experience at this moment in time.



Halfback?

I don't think he's putting a great deal of effort in, but his lack of running could be down to a number of factors, fear of injury, coaching instructions, etc. No one on this board knows why he isn't doing it, they are just presumptions, and due to him signing for RU those presumptions are on the negative side.



Eastmond has the technical ability to kick, Wheeler has not shown that. All the kicking would have to be done by Gaskell and he has shown that he is inconsistent with his kicking (due to inexperience in all probabilty), but to put the responsibility on his shoulders for being the main kicker could well destroy any confidence he has.



Stats? I seem to remember you refusing to acknowledge stats a few years back when they didn't support your view and wanted to wait until the end of the season

However, your choice of stats still shows that we are worse in defence than we were last year, so I don't see your point. We are conceding more on average than we were last year, and probably scoring a lot less too. What's the average for attack?



It is, I haven't got the stats for this week, but I'll almost guarantee that he is amongst the top 5 on the pitch for metres gained in the match. If he was too busy thinking he was a half back and passing that wouldn't be the case.

Coach. If they aren't performing they should be dropped.



He's said that in public, but off the record he blames the players for not thinking about the game, IMO that shows that he's blaming the players.



He's partially taken the blame, but he was never going to come out and say 'It's nothing to do with me' was he? I hope he is taking stock and seeing where he is going wrong, and I hope he improves, and proves my worries wrong. Above all else I want Saints to be successful, not to be proved right in my fears.

Agreed. But if the relationship between Eastmond and the fans deteriorates much further the cost-benefit equation may tip slightly the other way. No matter the risk posed to the juniors we simply could not afford to play a guy who patently wants out ASAP and the fans know it.

What, you have the inside story on the Saints do you?


Don't be so soft. How often do you hear any of the coaches criticise their own coaching on TV and in the press? They all talk in the royal We. But I can't remember when I last heard a coach say 'I've obviously not coached them well enough', like he did.

No, but seeing as the comments were on Andy Wilson's Twitter feed as being said [iafter[/i the press conference, it doesn't take a genius to work out that what he says to the press on record and what he thinks may be two different things...

**Edit**

I've changed my mind.

Good result for the club tonight against Leeds.

St Helens defence was pretty good and it looks like they are getting it together

Royce must STAY

Well, I must say, the things I asked for in various threads were delivered tonight. Thankyou Royce & the Team.

Long may it continue. WHo's next?

I think Lomax may have proved you wrong on this one Lump

In fairness the whole team looked better tonight and you do have to wonder if some of that is from getting rid of a certain negative influence

Just Bradford. Difficulty with that one is it's at Widnes.

Lomax was excellent – as was Foster. And indeed, the entire team. Wellens put in a massive performance.

It does beg the question of whether – as has been said – some sort of negative influence or atmosphere has been removed.

Much better performance, but serious questions have to be asked about Leeds and the way they line up since Brian Mac joined them, they have just collapsed, why they ever took him off our hands and look how long we have to put up with him is beyond belief!

To be fair to McDermott, that Leeds side is a shadow of two years ago. It's noticeable that Senior now often takes the ball standing still. Webb is nowhere near the threat he once was. Ditto Lautiti. Buderus looks to be drawing his pension meanwhile Hauraki and Cross, so far, don't seem to be championship material.

I thought cross took some real stopping last night. He and leuluia will be a formidable starting pair.

Jeez, they weren't THAT bad! They just need to tweak some of their play and get some of their seasoned troops back.

I find it ironic that both ourselves and Leeds dominated English Rugby League for the best part of four years, and now all of a sudden, both sides have suffered a fall from grace and are merely average play-off hopefuls.

Whats ironic about it?

I was quite impressed with Saints last night.


Sure it was only Leeds as the opposition.



But Saints seem to be getting it together. I'll be watching their next few fixtures with interest.

He certainly looked a lot more involved at half back than he did at the back end of last year, he had a great game. As did Gaskell.