We're 200 points down on last year, and you can keep banging on about injuries but our stats are down offensively in lots of areas not just because we have had two rookies in the halves for parts of the season. As alluded to, our offloads stats are shocking, especially when you consider we scoot alot. Experienced players aren't offloading the ball enough, experienced players aren't supporting the ball carrier enough and we're not playing with enough pace to beat our rivals, it's why we've lost the majority of games against them this season. I'd expect alot more 2nd phase play around the ruck area, but we haven't seen a great deal of it. Roby should have supporting runners with him all the time as should the likes of Graham, Pryce and Puletua who are known for offloading the ball. We're too predictable in attack at times and its only when we're down we open up a bit more and play more imaginative rugby e.g. Warrington away, Wigan at Millennium Magic. The Semi Final was crying out for more second phase play, we'd have killed Wigan with the territory we had. Put Warrington in that situation and they'd have rattled 30 or 40 on Wigan.



All very well, but realistically those below us haven't got a prayer of winning SL because they're not good enough in either area on consistent basis and it's why I doubt we'll be lifting the trophy at Old Trafford either. We haven't shown enough signs this season of being good enough in either attack or defence.

I hope Saints prove me wrong, but we haven't been good enough so far this year. We haven't looked enterprising enough in attack and our defence has been shaky at times too.

We're a decent, solid side that lacks any real cutting edge IMO.

Blobby, everything you have just said reinforces my point. We have had to field too many young players in one go and had too many changes on too frequent a basis to implement all those things you suggest. Had we had a settled team like Wigan and Wire have enjoyed, regardless of our inexperience in the halves - which we would have had anyway given Pryce's injuries and Eastmond's attitude - we would have had a better attack and defence this year, and we would have had a style of play more enjoyable to watch. I sense that because we have had glimpses of it here and there throughout the season. But we have only been able to enjoy glimpses because the injuries have disrupted us so badly.

Had Wire and Wigan had the same level and frequency of injuries that we have had they wouldn't have achieved the for and against points they have this season. I'd stake a year's salary on that.

On top of that, of course, is the adjustment the team has had to make in losing a talisman leader on the field. As Simmons said at the outset, they have to work as a team now because they no longer have six internationals to sort them out. We are a better team than our league stats indicate but we are not the 2006 team. However, even so we have only been shamed by a team above us twice (Hudds away, when they were above us, and Wigan at home).

I think we have done bloody well this season given all the disruption and adaption we have had to endure and as a fan I have been bitterly disappointed in the fact that we have had to experience those disruptions and adaptions. I would rather have seen what Simmons could do with the Wigan or Warrington level of disruption. I think you would have been signing to a totally different tune if we'd enjoyed the stability those teams have enjoyed.

I agree blobby, we have no cutting edge and until this is rectified we won't be real contenders.

I feel sorry for you Pete. You must be living in a perpetual cloud of doom and gloom!

I won't suggest that Hohaia at seven will bring us some more cutting edge because I know you will just tell me that Hohaia is a fullback and a load of tosh.

Hohaia is a fullback and IMO will be great in attack for us as he's very fast off the mark and loves to attack.

My worry is with lomax and hohaia in the halves we will lack a ball player, direction and a good kicking game.

I'd go with that, we have shown glimpses of what were capable of at times and I think as Gaskell and Lomax develop we will get some of the edge back. Hohaia will add to our attack but for me Wellens is just a passenger at fullback and seriously limits our attack. In my view were also missing Gilmour or a player like him capable of making line breaks, saying that I think Wilkin has developed.

You've not seen the pic in League Express this week? It's of Hohaia kicking. And the little report reckons we have a very good buy in him as he is on red hot form. He scored a try again.

Hohaia is an unknown quantity. But who knows, next season we may see a completely unknown group of young players hit the headlines at Saints and we'll be so full of cutting edge that the fans go home sporting arterial spurts!

Ideally id like to see Lomax and wheeler in the halves next year and Gaskell as backup, Lance should play FB as Welo has shown he cant do it anymore.
IMO Wheeler and Lomax could be a great hb partnership, with Lance baccking up from FB in attack

I think Gaskell has the ability but he isnt ready yet. We could do with a proper general in the middle to guide the team around. that would give Lomax and Gaskell time to develop that side of there games while allowing them the freedom to use there running games to torment teams.

1.Lance
6.Lomax
7. New half
1st backup for any of the 3 = Gaskell
Would be my preference , Lomax and Lance could interchange

Wheeler is another option but he cant stay fit, Wigan brought in Deacon to play a steady directing role and I think he does it well for them allowing Ratboy the freedom to kill other teams.

That's why Hohaia has been brought in.

V
I think you've misunderstood my posts.

I've never ever said hohaia is a bad signing, I'm made up with the signing as he's fast, can beat a man and will always be threat with ball in hand.

I'm a big fan if his.


Also you've misunderstood my posts about him playing in the halves. He'll go well in the halves as he takes the line on, he's a born attacker but my only worry is we will lack a ball player and little bit of direction as we have all this year.

So the is a pic of him kicking, that proves he's got a kicking game then phew!

Nail on the head! We do need a little general to direct us. At the moment were so predictable it's unreal.

I don't think so , if he was the 'general' type he would have been playing 6 or more likely 7 in the NRL. From what I remember of him he is almost certainly going to be more in the mould of a 6. I expect him to work the link with the backs and be a very good runner but I cant see him directing us round the park. Hope I'm wrong

As a big NRL fan I can't tell you that lance has never really shown he's the playmaker ball playing halfback we need. He's a runner and that's why he's been so good at fullback in the NRL.

The is nothing to day he can't adapt and take the ball playing role on but his game is taking the line on.

Well, I think Simmons will know more about him than anyone on here and he said he'd brought him in because we needed experience in the halves. So I'm tending towards trusting Royce's judgement on this one rather than the mere speculation of people on here.

Lee Briers takes the line on yet nobody would question his ability to direct play. Longy used to do it too. The two are not mutually exclusive you know. He could be a right gobby git on the pitch but we have no idea about that because he's not here yet!

I just hope Royce knows what he's doing as some of the recruitment for next year is a little worrying. I'm not worried with the players we've brought in as I think laffranchi and lance will be high level super league players but it's if they adapt to playing postions they are not used to.

Only time will tell.

When I say lance takes the line on, I mean he's more of a runner who runs at the line.

Your correct we don't know if lance is a gobby git but I'll tell you jonny lomax is a very quite guy which I know for a fact saints are trying to get him out of his shell.

That sand you've got your head in must be nasty. It's not speculation if you've seen him play. Take it from someone who's played in a team with mish mash halfbacks (like fullbacks who fancy themselves as a 7 because they want to get more ball) it isnt petty to watch or be part of. We desperately need a real 'general' 7 to help develop all these talented young players we have.

I hope to god I'm wrong and Hiho proves all his NRL coaches wrong and turns out to be a world class halfback who guides us round the park and kicks teams to death.

I've seen him play, yes, at fullback. He'll presumably have some direction over the defence from that position. But I haven't consciously watched him to see if he's talking! I've been watching the match and I've been impressed with his skills. I love his speed from standing start, his passing, his ability to score tries, his supporting play, his short kicking game, his elusiveness and his willingness to put the hits in for defence. All those are good things that are equally applicable to a halfback as to a fullback. The only bit we don't have is the vocal bit because he is playing at fullback at present. Since we now all know I was right when I said he HAD played at 6 in the NRL then we can assume he knows something of what is required of him.

Lomax, however, was asked to do a job that was meant for someone else. He's a quiet lad and so may never make it as a halfback. We'll no doubt get a better idea next season when there will be options rather than no choice due to injuries.

I think this year proves that without good quality halfbacks/halfback that it's pretty tough to get a result in tight games.

Off topic - you want to see the stud mark I got last Saturday, right on the knuckle and completely down to the bone. You can see my bone thru the stood hole. I didn't need a op like that s*ithouse charnley.

Spot on with your comments about lance, that's exactly the sort of player he is and he'll be breath of fresh air having a real attacking back that can beat players.

Nasty, they stitch it up ? I miss playing already and were only 1 game into the new season

Absolutely. But I think Hohaia is a quality halfback, in much the same way as Tomkins was. Who is saying that Tomkins isn't a halfback just because he can play well at fullback? I hear nobody saying that. So why are people saying that just because his coach has asked him to play at fullback, Hohaia isn't a good halfback? He has played at 6 in the NRL, as everyone now knows.


I don't think Charnley had an operation either because according to a report in I think it was League Express but it could have been League Weekly, there was no sign of a bandage or anything on his finger. It was supposed to have been broken!

Well before I head to bed I would like to point out Wilkin has played halfback in SL , Wello has played hooker and Ade Gardner has played a stint at second row ... so having played the odd game in the halves doesnt make you a halfback, it makes you cover.