If you were to rank our season on a grade system so far you'd have to see we're at a C or a D. We were very poor to start with, our worst performances for years and some horror results putting us down the bottom of the league. The victories against Leeds and Warrington have pushed up our grade and to be fair to Rush and KC, one defeat in their tenure so far is a good return.

I think we play the ruck well and when Roby is there, it makes a huge difference. He is a freak of a player who has pretty much everything. Everything comes through him and if the speed at the ruck isn't there we seem to suffer quite badly, which is a massive concern. It makes us a bit predictable. This for me is where the halves have to step up and create more on the edges. Compare the Warrington and Leeds games to recent displays and the organisation of our dummy runners and structured plays were far better in those 2 games than recently. I think we need to replicate our offensive displays from the Leeds / Wire games on a more regular basis and the forwards need to offload the ball and be less conservative sometimes. On the plus side, I feel alot more comfortable in our defence under Rush / KC than I did under Royce. The players seem comfortable in this current structure and barring the Widnes cup game (where Rush slammed the players), we've defended pretty well. Sure we conceded points against Wigan, but Wigan scored alot of good tries that day and they are capable of racking up 40 / 50pts easily against teams.

Going forward, I think we should put all our eggs into next weeks basket and go for the cup. It is our biggest game of the season by far. If we win next week there is no reason why we can't win the cup. Wigan look the strongest team right now, so to knock them out would be a huge result and would give us a strong chance. I personally think we'll finish 4th or 5th in the league. I don't think Catalans and Hull will maintain full consistency and Huddersfield always seem to have a sticky spell at some stage. We just need to hang on the coat tails of these teams along with Leeds and stay around there. Wigan should finish top and Warrington will be top 3 also. Whilst we are capable of making the Grand Final, it'll be difficult from lower down the league.

Psychologically, next weeks game is massive, and extends beyond the cup. If we win I reckon it will set us up nicely for tge rest of the season with the confidence that we can beat anyone in tge big games, no matter where we finish in the top eight. Lose, and we might as well hold the end of season party, because confidence will be shot, and I could see us taking a pasting in the next few difficult games, possibly even slipping back out of the top eight.

That's what I think as well.

I would also add I'm not as confident as Blobby in our defence. I don't think we look any different to how we looked under Simmons defensively and KC/Rush insist on letting Meli remain on the wing which, as we found out on Friday night, is an accident waiting to happen.

I am also still of the view that we are limited not by the coach but by the playing staff we have and that is why we are no more capable now of playing creatively when Robes is either absent or rendered ineffective than we were at the outset of the season. Our losses prior to Leeds were without Robes and we would go the same way again if he was out injured again.

We have missed Wilkin as an attacking threat and hopefully he will be back in the team on Saturday. He at least sometimes remembers that we have a right edge and chooses to use it. Robes/our halves seem incapable of passing anywhere other than to the left which is a great shame, especially while we have Makinson on the wing as he is pacey and a great finisher.

I'm going to stick with a top 4 finish and a win in the CC for the season.

I just think that whilst we maybe under performing we look at other teams and overate their capabilities. Leeds hammered Catalan a few weeks back and then got turned over by Hull. We got beaten by Hull then hammered Leeds. In the top 7 or 8 teams are more capable of overturning each other than they where previously.

I don't think we will lose as many games in the 2nd half of the year as we did at in the first half. We do look comfortable in defence, I think on Friday we looked a little uninterested at times. There was not the intensity I expected and maybe the draw with Wigan has wrongly distracted the players, when we are not focused, then our weak spots like Meli seam to go to sleep. He should have easly caught that kick and Wakey should have been niled. But then look at the Wigan game, they went a million miles an hour then lost their focus and let Hull KR come back at them, but never into a dangerous position.

We took Sia off and if he was not injured seriously that was the coach looking to next week with the game won.

Wigan are the club to beat, but I'd rather meet them now than at the back end of the year in a final.

It's a very even competition this year and although we've underperformed there isn't that much between being top of the tree and eighth in terms of ability. Consistency is an issue for many but I wonder if that's as much down to the cap continuing to bite than it is a reflection on teams' ability to back up.

The one thing that is a concern is something that others have often compared about but I get the feeling that it's just me having a moan this year and that's quick PTBs and the ruck area. I know Rogues, AP and a few others have often gone on about this being the basis of the British game but this year it's been non-stop. Every team does it now. When Wigoon beat us recently it was like watching Saints play against an Ian Millward team. If that's the way the competition is going to play out this year with little attention to the rucks then we're in with a very good shout because we have the best in the world at exploiting those spaces.

Hooray!!! Meli made a single error in a game which allows us members of the clueless, knee-jerk, one-eyed, braindead numpty brigade to reinforce our bizarrelly formed world view and have some kind of limited justification for blaming everything bad that's happened over the season so far on our designated scapegoat!!! Meanwhile we can continue to laud the mostly ineffective Makinson with similar lack of justification or reason. Let us rejoice brothers!!!

I think our pack, in terms of players, can handle the opposition packs.
For an example - even when we were playing badly, i thought we were out mucsling the Hull pack and it was only a couple of individual flashes that broke the game intheir favour.
The only problem with the pack is our forwards are a little one dimensionsal in terms of them ebing unspectacular toilers. Given how much we thrive on a quick PTB, I think even poor teams boss us around to much on the floor.

I'm not sure about Magennis. He looks like a tank, but sees to be dominated too easily. I wonder if Forster will be better long term. I'd get him (Magennis) out on loan and see what impact he can make on another squad.

We're also looking like we've got a pretty short play book. I complained loudly about us playing one up rugby under Royce, and when we got back those extra runners around the ruch I was delighted. Whilst its still working to a degree (Clough's inside ball to Wello for Friday's opening try), it seems like that's all we're running with, with Lomax not really seeming like he's got much up his sleeve.

Wigan are a hungry beast at the moment. They dominate us mainly by being up quick in defence. The effectiveness seemed to [iwane[/i as the season went on, perhaps as they became fatigued through their gruelling playing fashion,but at the moment they're still in full flight. If we are to beat them, we first of all need to match their commitment in defence and attack. They're also very slick out wide, so if we don't knock them down in the forwards they'll punish us.

He made two crucial and basic errors leading to the only two tries Wakefield scored. Against a good team, like the one we are playing on Saturday for instance, that could cost us the match. And he lets in tries on a fairly regular basis, usually in Grand Finals, the last one I will never forgive him for.


Makinson defended his line when called upon to do so on Friday night and scored a try with the one ball he got virtually all evening. Makinson would be far more effective if our playmakers considered passing to the right. However, they continually refuse to do so regardless of who is on the right wing.

Makinson also scored a try in the GF which turned the game in our favour. Meli let in at least two which resulted in us losing our lead and going on to lose the match. I am SO glad Meli is leaving us at the end of the season and think it is just a shame McManus was daft enough to re-sign him two years ago. We might have won the GF last season had he not been the person shunted to the wing when it all went pearshaped with injuries. He is a liability in defence: always has been, always will be.

aye it'll be very tough. A win will be great for our confidence against the only team to have bat Rush and KC.

It will be tough but I think we can do it.

Oh, I don't know why I bother.... You carry on living in your own pre-formed little dreamworld and be happy love.



As for the game - usual rules vs. Wigan apply. If we turn up, the forwards take the game to them and we can play to our potential then we have too much class for them overall and will win. If we have an off day (and/or they have another pet referee) then they'll rough us up and grind us down ugly again. Let's hope it's the former.

I'd say having 2 working halfbacks on the field will help against Wigan.

Cardiff Last year no Pryce, no gaskell
DW last year no Pryce, no eastmond, no gaskell and Wheeler taken out
LP this year lost Lomax after 16 mins.
loss of half backs against Wigan recently has been reaching epidemic proportions.

However I shall now duck and cover for the Lance comments.



I do wonder though whether both Lance and Lomax are fully fit as Gaskell has made a return to the 19 in the last 3 or 4 weeks. He was 18th man on Friday last week, I was wondering if that was a precaution in case one of them did not make it through training???

But we did have Eastmond and Wheeler on the pitch, so we did have two halfbacks. However, you did say 'working' halfbacks and Eastmond wasn't really working at that stage.


I don't think our halfbacks are the problem. I just think our lack of bash is. Bring back Jammer. He knew what to do with Wigan!

On the point about Lomax going off, on GF not only did we lose Lomax of course but we didn't have Wello or Laffranchi (our best prop by some distance) as both were banned. This time we should have them all plus Wilkin on the pitch, which is bound to help. However, I still think the game will be won or lost up front.

So far as Gaskell is concerned, hopefully the present coaching team have continued what Royce was doing in that hopefully he is still training with Lomax and Lance so that he will keep developing and be in a position to step in when needed/appropriate.

Defence will win this match, we need to get in there faces from play one. We,ve never this season played for 80 mins. Rush and KC needs to get inside there heads with believe that they can control and dominate this match. Putting lots of pressure (Soliola) onto Tomkins would severe the goons cutting edge.

Don't forget O/T the season previous either with no Pryce, Eastmond or Wheeler (again)... By the law of averages we're due 2 halves staying fit for the whole 80 against them at some stage. I just hope Lance can finally pull a performance out of the hat to go with that bit of luck - Lord knows he's due one by the same law of averages...

I'm glad you noticed the working element. Also that first game against Wigan I think was Wheelers first game at halfback for the first team.

I forgot about the halves missing in the Final against Wigan.

I know forwards lay the platform, but without a potent attack there is no pressure applied to the other side.. You can have all the big running forwards you like but with no plays a decent defence with hold them out. A team like wigan can match the bash in defence, it makes the game easy for them, they don't get run off their feet and have plently left in the tank to charge down field. Run at them with creative attacking plays and then they will have some work to do.

I'm sorry,Saints are a good team and certainly capable of beating us on saturday but to say you'll have to much class for us and we'd only win if saints have an off day or we get a bias ref is absolute rubbish.

Is that rose or cherry tinting you have there in those spectacles? Wigan at the moment are a relatively ordinary but solidly coached set of players with a couple of match-winners. Saints have more squad quality overall than you do (not much more these days, but more nevertheless) but lack the coaching and tactics to make the best of it at the moment. Wigan have a level of grinding consistency we can't hope to approach on a game-by-game basis, but on the one-off occasion if it all comes together we're capable of greater heights than you are. Deal with it.

You haven't seen much of the current best attacking team in the league at the moment have you? With the most tries and clean breaks. Unfortunately for us Rush and Co won't prepare for this game like Wigan are 'ordinary' otherwise the result would not be in doubt.

Derrrr....

If I wanted to watch 17 inbreds wrestling and writhing around on the ground for 80 minutes then I'd get myself a hot oil wrestling DVD and at least get [isome[/i entertainment from the experience...

If thats how you get your entertainment it certainly explains a lot.

a bit harsh on wigan, that. In some ways like in 2006 when all of our players were rubbish and only looked good because of the other players around them

And there was me thinking that I usually get a sensible and grown up debate from most St Helens fans...

Maybe a little, and they have plenty of players I'd love to see in a Saints shirt, but overall if I were selecting a best 17 from the 2 squads I'd definitely end up picking more Saints players than Pies. If we'd had Maggie the last 2.5 years (and a bit of fitness conditioning) then I doubt the rest of the league would have seen us for the dust.