Well he certainly put in a great defensive effort that I can't fault. But offensivly with ball in hand I personally thought he was non exisistant. No little half-breaks or tackles bust. It's no wonder Saints struggled to score points when one of their supposed greatest attacking weapons did bugger all when taking on the Wigan line. Sorry I fogot he put in two grubber kicks to force repeat sets, get that man a medal!




I actually though your kicking game was better than ours. You did at least on occasions find the ground, something we struggled to find all match. Granted you put in some shocking bombs mainly from Leon, but then again he never has had a great kicking game, so what else would one expect from him.



To be honest I'm only jostling with you buddy. I hope that comes across in my posts. I do after all when ever mentioning Wilkin usually use the winking smilie. Not that it exonerates me from criticism because of my feelings on him.

I know Wilkins a good player. I did afterall agree with you that I think he's having a better season overall than Lockers.

Slightly OT: But as I mentioned on the Wigan forum in regards to Sam Tomkins. So many so called "great" players do go missing in one way or another in big games. It's ok showing all the flair in the world whilst putting fifty past the likes of Wakey. But it's those truly great players who are able to replicate that kind of performance even in the toughest games regardless of the opposition. It's that kind of mentality, that type of quality that really sets apart the so called "great" players from the truly great ones IMO. You lacked on Saturday the game breaking ability that a Long or Sculthorpe once provided you with. Scully never shirked when the going got tough, if anything he rose to the occasion. That's what your lacking IMO.

No question - Tomkins is a phenomenon and does it time and again whet it matters.

Absolutely brilliant player.

if he had a inspiring 4 nations campaign, i wonder if the boos would still ring out?

McBanana needs to use him the same way we do then.

Yes thats the difference, nothing to do with not being behind a dominantt pack, or being against players far below the level of the Aussies.

You think Tomkins would have been able to reach out over the line with 3 Aussies tackling him....

Its the eqivalent of a player ripping up the championship and then blaming the coach when he does nothing in the SL.

Yes, I would back Sam to score exactly the same try again with 3 Aussies tackling him - Just because Richie Myler cant, doesnt mean Sam cant.

Sam didn't look exactly outstanding in the Exiles game. He looked ok, but not the stuff of which Billy Slaters are made. I'm sure we will get to see if he really can perform when he has to do so under a different regime with different team mates and facing a whole new level of opposition. I think that will be the test of whether Sam Tomkins really is an excellent player.

Just confirming how clueless you are.

You appear to have been banned off the Wigan board and are now coming onto our board to pick arguments with Wigan fans.

It's quite annoying to be honest, I'm not sure I've seen one constructive post off you.

No doubt about it, Sam Tomkins is the best English player we've got at the moment. Everytime he's got the ball the is danger.

England need to use him in the way Wigan do. I honestly think he will trouble the convicts and kiwis as it's impossible to pin him down from fullback as he drifts in and out the game.

Sorry, I'm "siding" with Ron against Mr Side.


Tomkins would never have scored that try against the aussies.

In all honesty I agree with his point on this thread, but every single thread that any Wigan fan posts on he pops up to argue with them.

You have to laugh. The clearer it becomes that Tomkins is the best player in SL, the only criticism left is that he MIGHT not have scored a certain try IF he'd been playing against the Aussies. How many times do you stop and think after one of your own players has scored a try "Hmm, well I suppose he wouldn't have scored that against the Aussies." How many times have great tries been scored in SL by players other than Tomkins and been met with criticism rather than praise on the basis that they might not have scored the same try against the Aussies? It's bonkers! It really is clutching at straws for want of criticism. I mean think about it, it amounts to "Tomkins is only good because he's playing against us, and we're shίt!"

You are missing the point(s). This is not having a go at Tompkins.
1. Tomkins is a great player most saints fans would be delighted if him or his equivalent (if there was one but I can't think of one in this country who is better than him).
2. The try he scored against us was a very poor try to concede. We had ample opportunity to stop him but LMS, Moore and Wello failed miserably. It took some scoring but he should have been stopped as he signalled exactly what he was going to try to do.
3. Ron's and my view's are that the aussie national team would not defend like that and concede such a relatively "soft" try.

I don't see anything wrong with the opinion that tomkins is a fantastic player but he should have been stopped. I think the difference is that you see it as a great try whilst I saw it as a try that we should never have conceded.

Unlike the the try at the end of the first half which was a superb try by anyone's definition and although I know how frail/lazy Meli can be in defence, I think most players would have had a difficult time countering that step at that pace. Superb try.

Agreed 100%

Ok fair enough, it just seems to be trotted out after every single Tomkins try lately, constantly banging on about "the Aussies" because that's the only "criticism" left.

No thats fine, now then; fancy swapping him for wello?

I'm going bed my loved one. I'll leave the door open for you, just let yourself in and lock the door behind you.

I just can't stop laughing, my face aches I'm laughing that much.

See ya in bit

The fantasy world of St Pete.

Scary, hey?

Just let it out in the open.

I'm not qiute sure how this thread turned into a Tomkins debate but i'll join in anyway.

I doubt he would of scored that try against Australia because they wouldn't have given him the opportunity. He took advantage of a gap he spotted. There is no doubting his ability but when (assuming he is fit) plays in the 4 nations i don't think he'll cause too many problems for Australia. This is not because i don't think he is not good enough but because i don't think England are good enough. As a team we don't run the lines and offer the space for any of our attacking players to take advantage.

Until the standard of coaching throughout SL improves i don't think England will, whoever the coach is.

GB/England for years have looked clueless as an attacking unit, particularly out wide. You literally could put Bill Slater at his peak in at full back for us and he wouldn't do much and people would wonder what all the fuss was about. Until we get halfbacks who can set up plays and provide structure (hopefully Widdopp will help here), and some athleticism and attacking threat in the threequarters (signs of a couple of potential players here), Tomkins would look as stranded as everyone else has.

We also need our forwards to do far better work off the ball as well.

Better stop there, the whole topic is thoroughly depressing....

So everyone agrees with me, good stuff.