Not so generous in defeat, after all.

ROFLMAO!!

I remember 2011. We just couldn't beat Wigan. We played them six times that season and we lost the first four, sometimes quite hansomely. But clearly eventually we learned how to play them because we beat them in the play offs: not once, but twice, and by the same score.

Because we came closer this time than the last twice, I'm crossing my fingers that 2015 will be a repeat of 2011 but obviously this time with Leeds.

It was closer this time but was has been overlooked in Mugwump's clinging onto the 'comeback' Saints made is this......Saints played last Friday, Leeds only on Sunday.

Give Leeds an equal turnaround of 7 days or God forbid Leeds have the 7 day turnaround whilst Saints only have 5 days then how close do you think that Semi Final goes?

Not to mention we went 60 mins without our starting hooker in Aiton. Granted Burrow gives us an excitement factor but we missed Aiton in the middle particularly defensively as Burrow doesn't defend there when on so leaves more work for the forwards in the middle without a 30/40 tackles hooker beside them.

Sorry ThePrinter, but that's not really a fair manner of looking at things. The turnaround stuff is neither here nor there - the game is littered with wins for sides with a shorter turnaround and a longer one.

The injuries stuff could easily be twisted (we lost Greenwood and Vea in the game also, you lost JJB as well).

The reality is you beat us and deserved to do so. You could have been out of sight in half an hour, but you weren't regardless of what we say or don't say. We were within 4 of you when Masoe knocked on in your half when we had much momentum. Swings and roundabouts as they say.

The only caveat I'd offer as a Saints fan, is that I honestly do believe Saints have a lot of improvement on the showings we've put up against Leeds this year (if you're interested, check the QUITTING thread where I've listed four), I'm not convinced Leeds can massively improve on the showings you've put in on us.

I've followed Saints for too long to write them off and I won't be doing it this year either. It'll still take a mighty fine effort to knock us over in the Play Offs, especially if we start to remedy some of the issues we've shown against you. However, right now, you're big favourites, no doubt. Again though, arrogantly dismissing us is something I'd be wary of doing as a Leeds fan. Admittedly, our recent history against you gives you a lot of confidence but that comes to an end let me tell you. It was you guys that did it to our legends starting in 2007, the very same could easily happen to yourselves in 2015.

Not dismissing Saints' chances but it doesn't alter the results between us so far.

To ignore the turnaround thing is kind of head in sand stuff though. To claim their's a equal list of short turnaround wins neither holds up or highlights not every one of those will be a game between 1st vs 2nd in a cup semi final. You can't honestly believe an extra two days rest for Leeds (or even two days less for Saints) wouldn't alter a thing about the game?

As for the injuries. You get a 2nd rower get injured then you roll another 2nd row on in a straight swap. Aiton who defends in the traditional hooker position in the middle making 30/40 tackles goes off and the 'replacement' in Burrow comes on and defends next to Hall and everyone has to move in one. Imagine Roby going off and his replacement has to defend out wide, what effect would that have on your props not having Roby (or a replacement) to defend with them in the middle? Very significant indeed.

You've beaten us fair and square on all three occasions.

I do believe the extra day or two is a red herring. I've seen us win Grand Finals after a fortnight off, I've seen us win without it. I've seen us lose to teams with a shorter turnaround and win in similar situations etc. Sure, in theory you'd have less energy but I think in games like this, adrenaline takes over. Second half, you were kicking to touch a lot anyhow because the manner in which you start games saps plenty from you.

Injuries, yeah they matter a lot. It's no excuse anyway, they happen and we get on with it. Vea was a huge loss in that particular game. He's quickly become a big part of our set up. I think we've only really recognised just how big he is for us in the couple of games since he's been back (and now gone). Like for like in theory but it takes something away.

Nevertheless, you won, we didn't. You deserved it. Good luck to you for the final and hopefully, we'll get another shot at you later in the season.

Phil clarke on sky looked into the short turnaround thing and said the evidence shows that the short turnaround doesn't hinder anyone. He went into his usual crap with stats etc to come to the conclusion

I think leeds and saints are the best two teams in the league . That does not mean either Leeds or Saints are guaranteed to win anything .
Wigan can play a spoiling game and upset the applecart. We played well last Friday and deserved our victory. If we played you at old trafford I would think it would be anybody's game.
So the answer to your question, yes you can beat Leeds. From a rugby point of veiw a Leeds -Saints grand final would suit me, we would see a decent game conducted in good spirit, as per last Friday .
Fingers crossed it will not feature Wigan .

The thing is we haven't learnt our lessons from the 3 encounters, we have the worse half backs and full back in super league for defence, Leeds just ran across the line until eventually they came across these 3 players and went through the turnstiles.
We are reasonable against teams below us but a poor second when we play Leeds, we could play Leeds 5 times this season but its the last one that counts.

I think the main lesson you could learn ,would be to ask Walsh to stop kicking direct to our full back.
He is rock solid under the high ball,just like wellens in his prime. I could not believe how often you gave the ball away.
Surely you won't repeat that mistake next time we meet you.

We undoubtedly have the worst scrum half in the league on defence. I can't really make a judgement on Quinlan (other than he's quite small) since he's only been here for a few weeks. There's nothing wrong with Burns. The guy tackles like a demon.

At times, like when he ended JJBs night. He does however miss an awful lot of tackles. Look at the Hull KR game and Dixon's try. He misses the tackle that creates the break upfield then misses the tackle on Dixon that allows him to score.

He misses tackles because he attempts a lot of tackles. The guy has a terrific appetite for the kind of dirty work most halves prefer not to get involved in. But he is only a half-back, which means he's going to get smoked once in a while.

I can deal with Burns missing the odd tackle in the same way I did when Sean Long was beaten.

What I can't deal with is a scrum half who has all the lateral mobility of Long John Silver.

Well, they've lost Sinfield, Peacock, Aiton, possibly JJB as well for next season...2 of them are greats of the game. Aiton is a cracking little hooker and JJB has been a top servant for them.

It'll be interesting to see how they get on next season.

You missed off Leuleuai too.

He doesn,t look as though he can make any impact in a tackle and easily gets wrong footed, taking high balls and support play is excellent but defence is the worse I,ve seen in a saints full back shirt.

Forgot about him. He's been excellent for them and another big loss.

But Long could run. Were you happy with Burns 11 metres with the ball on Friday?

btw Walsh ran for 54 metres.

Just been watching the game again and actually it was a better game than it seemed on the night.

I never got to watch it on TV, but when you do, you can see how hard Leeds are pounding the Saints line with both possession and territory. But we didn't crack as badly as we could have, both tries where team errors, I think Moon for the first try ran past 7 Saints players, so pinning it on Walsh is just wrong, someone should have tackled Moon far earlier.

The same for Burrows break we had started to turn the game and then in Leeds half we had a moment of Laziness and let him run across 3 players.

Leeds were very good no doubt, but we were good also, just not good enough. But it is not an insurmountable gap.
That does not mean I think we will win the next meeting, but talk of not beating Leeds this year is very premature.

We had chances in that first half that we bombed.
2 drops by LMS on the line
Greenwood dropping the ball
forward pass by walsh to Quinlan

We could have done better.

Exactly....it was a cracking game that Saints could have easily won. Lesser teams would have crumbled under that immense Leeds whirlwind start. The fact is you were only 12-4 down at HT with a superbly created try of your own at the end of a huge effort in defence.
Maybe Leeds have the best 1-5 but Quinlan certainly adds something to your attack and Percival is class. The forwards are well matched but I'd suggest Saints might just have the edge with Walmsley and Savelio especially. Some more cracking matches to come I think with Saints undoubted turn to come out on top at some stage. Your weak link is undoubtedly Walsh in defence.....Leeds have constantly targeted him.

I thought the opening by Leeds was about as good as it gets for us. I was certainly nervous that we hadn't had the game won after 30 mins as we'd done absolutely nothing wrong, played with great skill and speed yet were only two scores up. Make no mistake, Saints did really, really well to absorb the amount they did and then change the game's momentum. However, we had - just - done enough as it turned out.

Can't really imagine us playing at that pace of that opening while making zero errors every time we meet. If we were capable of turning it on at will we'd be nailed on certs for every trophy going. But of course we aren't.

It did feel a bit like the south Sidney game in that 30 minutes. I don't know if that's a fair comparison but Leeds looked unstoppable.

Leeds were front-loading their effort and gambling on running up a big enough lead to put Saints out of the game by the 20th minute. The point is such tactics are unsustainable. You can't play at that pace all game.

Which means you've just got to concentrate on matching their workrate on defence whilst keeping mistakes to an absolute minimum in possession.

Play out your six. Concentrate on making as much yardage as possible in the forwards, find touch with your kicks and play out the time.

It's the Rugby League equivalent to Muhammed Ali's "Rope-a-dope" technique. Allow the opposition to burn themselves out and then come on strong between the 20th and 60th minutes.

To be honest I thought Saints coped with it all rather well - BENDING but not BREAKING - with the exception of a scrum half who's so completely crocked he contributed to half of Leeds' points.

We didn't play out our six, we kicked early. We didn't kicked to touch, we kicked straight at the full back. We didn't play out our time, we gave it back to Leeds ASAP.

Not sure that's "bending"

We certainly played some really dumb football going forward. But our scrambling defence (aside from Walsh) was not bad. It performed well enough to keep us in the game - which was not the case in the previous two encounters.

What you are really looking for is to be level on points or ahead. If the opposition piles extra effort into trying to establish a first quarter lead and then finds itself behind, that's a major psychological battle won.