Are you for real? You've made up a ridiculous scenario there to back your wild imagination up.

The majority of fans felt that under Royce Simmons Saints had lost their identity, they weren't playing the Saints way and the blokes in charge now have been fully immersed in the Saints culture for the last god know how long. They aren't two complete outsiders,They aren't RL idiots, they've been in the game long enough to know how to run a team and as has been said the results since they've been put in place have show that the decision has been the right one.

For what it's worth I know exactly how things are done at the club at th eminute, who's making decisions on team selection and your idea of this 'collective' well it's nothing like the truth.

No you haven't. In the first instance you stated that the reason Foster wasn't playing was because Meli wanted to play on the wing and there was a 'coaching collective' in charge of the club. You didn't express it as an opinion, you stated it as if it were fact.

No I didn't. I made up some ridiculous names to illustrate the situation we are in at present. Saints fans would have expressed outrage if two coaches with the combined experience of one season as an assistant at first grade had been appointed from outside the club. Do you disagree with that statement?

However. Because - and only because - the two replacement coaching staff comprise Mike Rush and Keiron Cunningham clearly they need no extra help at all.

Oh, I'd like to know what this 'Saints way' of playing is btw? Is it how we played under Millward or under Anderson or what? Coz we look no different to me than we did when Royce was in charge (except that we have cut down on the individual errors).

What? You mean I have to say 'in my opinion' every time I write anything for it to qualify as an opinion?

Exactly how do you think it could be anything other than an opinion? Do you think I am one of the coaching staff or something?

Have you been watching the same team as me? We've looked a lot better than the team that started the season so dismally. The stats showed that we made more metres, more offloads, more breaks since the change - a completely different team, and part of this has been the decision to leave gaskell and foster out and play a more experienced team.

With regards the hypothetical situation, of course it would be a concern however it is what it is, Mike Rush & KC know the club inside out, they know the players better than most and they know what it take to have a succesfull team having been involved in one for many years. Would you honestly rather we'd stuck with Simmons and expected to see the same turnaround from the team?

I think you are confusing style of play with level of performance. I was talking about style of play, responding to the point about playing 'the Saints way'. But we were as conservative against Widnes as we were against Bradford and Hull, for example. The big difference is that certain players have started making an effort going forward (attitude) and the individual errors have dropped. As you identified, the greatest sources of those indivdual errors were Gaskell and Foster and they have been dropped (something I too was suggesting over a month ago so as to get their confidence/form back).

I wonder if anyone ever considered that we actually need to play conservatively because the team is not capable of playing otherwise?


Well, as I've said before, I wasn't of the view that the team would have stayed the way it was with Royce in charge because we turned around last year and on that evidence there was no reason to believe we wouldn't have turned around this year, especially since our losses were so very close (and in the last two, with Robes and others out injured). However, what I would rather have is an experienced coach in charge and unlike some people I don't rate our current set up solely based upon the fact that they've been at the club for ages. That doesn't make them good first team coaches. I think though that McManus was banking on the fans being appeased in the way that many have been appeased because he would have known that he couldn't have pulled off what he did without choosing exactly those two people to be in charge.

However, I just view them in the same way I would any other coaching team and so far as I can see, bar the individual errors, we haven't changed as a team. We still have the same frailties, as last week showed. We still play to the same style.

Incidentally, we now have more inexperience in the team than we had when Royce was here because Josh Jones and Adam Swift are brand new to the first team. Nobody brand new came in this season under Royce. So I think that might undermine your suggestion that we needed more experience.

No i'm not confusing anything. We're doing lots of things differently now and players are given different direction under the current coaches, I know that for a fact too so it's unfortunately not something thats open for debate.

With regards to your experience issue, anybody who isn't so obsessed with Royce Simmons would be able to tell you that experience in the team has been key, the thing with Swift in particular is it's easier to bring youth into a team that isn't under the cosh in the same way we'd been. It needed some experience to steady the ship, that did the job and now we're in a far better position that we were under Simmons.

Quote ="SaintsFan" I'm either making stuff up or I'm expressing an opinion. Do you know the difference between the two? Let me help you. I'm expressing an opinion. I've said that all along.'" Just because you're expressing your opinion it doesn't mean you aren't making it up. If you think the two are mutually exclusive you're even more stupid than I thought. You're going to get your name on the famous board in pizza hut at this rate. www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... -on-rlfans I honestly don't know if you're bat crazy or just winding us up.

Quote ="SaintsFan" I'm either making stuff up or I'm expressing an opinion. Do you know the difference between the two? Let me help you. I'm expressing an opinion. I've said that all along.'" Just because you're expressing your opinion it doesn't mean you aren't making it up. If you think the two are mutually exclusive you're even more stupid than I thought. You're going to get your name on the famous board in pizza hut at this rate. www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... -on-rlfans I honestly don't know if you're bat crazy or just winding us up.

Are you mad? How long have you been watching Saints? Do you have any idea what the Saints way of playing is?

I thought not.

You've totally and utterly lost your mind. I'm not joking either! Since the day saints sacked Royce Simmons you've become so bitter it's unreal!

Simmons was a man who was out of his depth big time, he looked clueless of how to get us out of the worst run saints had been on in god knows how many yeas, he'd lost the dressing room, lost the support of fans and lost the support of McManus.

Sine the sacking, we've lost one game against 2nd in the league, we are in the next round of challenge cup more importantly we are playing for each other again.

Weve appointed a top class coach in Nathan brown for next year and your still not happy!

It's obvious you like TV shows like conspiracy theories because this crazy theory youve come up with about "collective coaching" is just utter madness.

I'd love to hear your take on who shot JFK, was the world rmtrade centre blew up by the americans, the Bermuda triangle and the titanic.

You drunk again Pete?

I'd say yes, just slightly and serious hangover but you've still lost your marbles.


And just to let you know before you ask me after, I'll be on it again at 1pm

I asked the question. Is it like we played under Millward or under Anderson or what? You responded with more questions rather than giving me an answer. I assume you don't know?

Are you suggesting I had marbles in the first place? Clearly you don't know me!

Everything is open for debate.


You brought him up; I didn't.

I want an experienced coach in charge, not two people who have virtually no experience at all, regardless of who they are.

I'd rather to Inexperinced (is rush Inexperinced) than having a complete idiot who took us on our worst ever run and made us a joke at our new home which resulted in booing the tran off.

Quote ="BackrowSaint"Just because you're expressing your opinion it doesn't mean you aren't making it up. If you think the two are mutually exclusive you're even more stupid than I thought.'" If you say so. Quote You're going to get your name on the famous board in pizza hut at this rate. www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... -on-rlfans'" I've seen the thread already and I think it's really funny (but somewhat childish). I'm flattered that the posters think me worthy enough of a thread all to myself. It's like schoolyard stuff, much as some of the comments on here are. I guess some people never grow up. One of them certainly doesn't realise how fortunate he was that I didn't take things in a different direction, and he will know who he is. And to Luckysaint: there was a good reason I blocked you on Twitter but don't take it too personally.

Quote ="BackrowSaint"Just because you're expressing your opinion it doesn't mean you aren't making it up. If you think the two are mutually exclusive you're even more stupid than I thought.'" If you say so. Quote You're going to get your name on the famous board in pizza hut at this rate. www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... -on-rlfans'" I've seen the thread already and I think it's really funny (but somewhat childish). I'm flattered that the posters think me worthy enough of a thread all to myself. It's like schoolyard stuff, much as some of the comments on here are. I guess some people never grow up. One of them certainly doesn't realise how fortunate he was that I didn't take things in a different direction, and he will know who he is. And to Luckysaint: there was a good reason I blocked you on Twitter but don't take it too personally.

Rush is inexperienced at first grade level yes. He has only one season at assistant level (he was assistant to Daniel Anderson for a season when our assistant left and before the new one was appointed).

As for booing the team off: that happened under Potter and according to relatives who have been watching Saints for 60 plus years, has happened many, many times over the years. Saints fans have traditionally booed the players when unhappy with performances, so I'm told.

Not nice in the new home tho.

Nope but then I don't like being berated over the tannoy either or some jobsworth steward stopping the Typhoo Tea Ladies lobbing little packs of teabags into the crowd.

Anyway, enough of this thread. Having seen the marvellous Steve Prescott interviewed on national TV prior to the marathon this morning, I'm going to actually watch the marathon in support of him and Scully, and hope that they make it to the end in good nick and raise loads of dosh for charity.

I'm off out min anyway and do something your beloved Royce couldnt do. (coach a team to a win)

Quote ="SaintsFan"All views are selective, all of the time. And you know this how? You don't. As you said above, we can all be selective in the views we take. You have selected to choose not to believe a coaching collective exists; at present anyway, I choose to believe that it does. People just interpret the evidence in their own way, as you said above.'" You may chose to believe that a coaching collective exists, but it is not true to say that this has been stated by anyone else other that yourself. Which is what I meant. It maybe true - it may not be, but it's not been said by anyone from the club that we have a coaching collective. I may say that we are consulting mystic meg for advice every week, but it does not mean anyone at the club has said that. The only mention of a collective I can find comes from here www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/1817 "It is a tough start for me and Keiron (Cunningham) but it's a challenge. We want to turn our season around as a collective."

Quote ="SaintsFan"All views are selective, all of the time. And you know this how? You don't. As you said above, we can all be selective in the views we take. You have selected to choose not to believe a coaching collective exists; at present anyway, I choose to believe that it does. People just interpret the evidence in their own way, as you said above.'" You may chose to believe that a coaching collective exists, but it is not true to say that this has been stated by anyone else other that yourself. Which is what I meant. It maybe true - it may not be, but it's not been said by anyone from the club that we have a coaching collective. I may say that we are consulting mystic meg for advice every week, but it does not mean anyone at the club has said that. The only mention of a collective I can find comes from here www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/1817 "It is a tough start for me and Keiron (Cunningham) but it's a challenge. We want to turn our season around as a collective."