From [url=http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/9130130.Saints_still_in_the_mix_for_both_comps_despite_a_year_on_the_road/here[/url

Just how? Who is getting this money? When you compare the quality, the number of players, the number of star players to the other sides, there must be some shockingly overpaid players at the club.

Clubs like Warrington and Wigan must have far better loopholes than we do or a far better handle on salary levels. Every year we shed senior players in their droves and never replace like with like ever. Which begs the question, are we overpaying the young players?

Maybe it's something to do with this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=500277

Maybe it's something to do with this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=500277

Quote ="Dux"Maybe it's something to do with this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=500277 '" 5 or 6 years ago when we still had ambition, possibly. We can't sign him, we're at the quota limits

Quote ="Dux"Maybe it's something to do with this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=500277 '" 5 or 6 years ago when we still had ambition, possibly. We can't sign him, we're at the quota limits

If it weren't for those pesky quota rules he'd be here like a shot.

No, it's just that our star players haven't been playing like star players this season and/or they have been injured. Or they are James Roby*


*James Roby being our only star player who has been ever present (in spite of injuries) and who has also been playing like a star player (bar the Hull game).

Whilst it appears Warrington have assembled an expensive side of star names, I don't think wigans squad, man for man is netter than ours. It is largely the same bunch of journey men who until McGuire came to the club were generally inept. He has coached them into a side capable of winning trophies. Will be interesting to see whether they cam keep it going when McGuire leaves, or whether the emperors clothes will be revealed

Warrington add Chris Hill to their squad. Two in one out for them so far, although L Anderson will make it 2:2.

One has to wonder what Saints have planned. We MUST be MASSIVELY under the cap next season given Eastmond, Graham and possibly Pryce are leaving (Plus three or four fringe players). Hohaia isn't worthy of a massive deal and I'd be surprised if Laffranchi matched Graham's deal.

But where is this signing or two going to come from? We just don't seem to be bothered about the playing side of things at all and the fact the current squad is taking the entire cap is farcical.

like others have said, we must be massively over paying some players. Eastmond and Jammer failed to take up their deals, leon leaving too leaves probably getting on for £500k of spare cap space for next year. If our two imports add up to that someone needs shooting

Our recruitment for next season is - at the moment - puzzling. Part of me is wondering if they've wrapped up one or two deals and decided to keep them quiet, but I cannot work out why they would do that. I'm interested in finding out just how much we're paying our players.

The recruitment over the past 5 years has been terrible. Next year is the worst squad I've seen at saints for 15 years. IMO we will be fighting for 6th, 7th or 8th next season.

Didn't a certain someone say we'd have a team to grave the new stadium?

Maybe we've targetted players, offered contracts but they've chosen to go elsewhere?

I must admit, I'm a little concerned about our squad for next season so far. It's currently looking weaker and I think we need 2 or 3 fresh faces, ideally experienced players to give the fans a boost going into the new stadium.

We need more than 3 new faces.

We need fullback, winger, centre, halfback and at least one prop.

Or maybe you are going to increase the contracts of the likes of Gaskell, Lomax, Makinson, Foster etc.

It's a risky business if you go down that route without having some top class experienced players to go with them.

Probably, but we need to be realistic - no clubs are going to sign 7 good quality players in an off season.

I've no doubt we will go down that route. We will keep saying how well we develop young players and suck all the fans into thinking we are building a new team round youth. In reality it's just the cheap option.

Of the above players, only lomax has a chance of making it but IMO he's totally over hyped.

I keep looking back to 2003/2004 at Wigan.

Briscoe, Hodgson, Aspinwall, Brown, Robinson, Hock, Wild, Tickle and O'Loughlin were all at similar ages to the Saints youngsters in your side now.

They were better players than Saints have, with the possible exception of Lomax, but failed because we didn't have sufficient experience around them.

I think a lot of saints fans get carried away with our youngsters. IMO only lomax has half a chance of making it to be good player and I have my doubts with him.

That would be why Foster has just been invited to join the Knights programme. Makinson is looking good on the wing too, for a 19 year old who has played half a dozen games there. We haven't seen a lot of our rookie squad members, as opposed to those in their second full seasons (eg Dixon, Ashurst) so I really don't know how you can make that kind of comment. It's a good thing to be positive about our young players but only time and plenty of first team experience will tell us if they can make the grade.

Just because you say you are spending upto the cap doesnt mean you are doing so.

After all if you tell everyone you are £300k under the cap, then current players will want a pay rise, fans will be querying why you are not spending to the limit, agents for players looking to move to Saints will also be looking for a big pay rise etc.

The only people who truly know if we are upto the cap limit are the RFL and Saints directors.

My personal suspicion is we are operating below it by some way, because it would make business sense to reduce salary cost base at this time. My rationale is that income will be massively reduced this year, and in the immediate years ahead we will have a large expenditure in the stadium to pay for, during a time of economic depression.
Moving to a new stadium makes financial predictions a bit of a gamble for the first year or so, as Saints wont truly know if they will get a boost in crowds attending, and by how much if any they will increase corporate and other income. Only after they have firm data showing what their income levels will be in the new ground, will they be able to properly analyse if they can afford to pay the full salary cap.

Remember the new stadium is supposed to be Saints financial saviour. Therefore Saints need to ensure that this is the case, and not take the view that a new stadium means they have won the lottery; and as a consequence start spending money they havent got.
I think Leigh Centurions may be a fair example of a club that has recently moved into a new stadium, but have since hit financial difficulty, because they assumed they would have money flooding in. The reality was the new stadium also introduced certain costs they may not have had in the past, and which they dont appear to have budgeted for. At the same time they didnt get any meaningful boost in attendances.

Before you try and start and heated debate, I'll just say, I hope to god these players turn out to be world beaters but IMHO I don't think they will.

I'm not going to over hype these players or get sucked into the ub saying we building from youth when it's obvious they are going for cheap option.

Anyone with half a brain knows you've got to be very lucky to bring thru a batch of good young players and the likely hood is that your lucky to get two out of say ten that will make a quality player.

I agree with the chair that we are probably comfortable under the cap, and saying otherwise is for the reasons he has mentioned. As for our youngsters, as far as skill goes Lomax looks a gem to me, and if the lad's luck changes, Wheeler too. After that we have Gaskell, who is a year behind those two in development and has done well thrown in before he was expecting. Foster looks good, but not great, i agree with Rogues that their young lad Charnley is a better winger. Makinson also has done well in his first season and has a lot of promise. After that we have the likes of Ashe, who has been well hyped but hasnt had the time in the team yet.
What we need is some quality forwards in our youth team. Wigan have brought through alot recently, and after Cloughy we've been sorely lacking there IMO

OK so you are now the chairman, which ENGLISH players do you propose we get to replace full back, centre, 2 props and of course the ridiculously over hyped Lomax, not forgetting Gaskell and Foster?

I think sometimes people listen to our pink and white spec wearing wigin friends a little too much.

Listen mate, if I was the chairman we wouldn't be needing all these players at once. It's called planning ahead. As I've said it's over a period of 5 years the recruitment has been poor, not just this year or for next year but for the last 5 years!

How many clubs only have one reconised centre at the club? None, we've had it since talau went.

It's keeping the likes of Gardner, meli, flannery, wello to long and not replacing them over a period of time. Meli should of gone two years ago and replaced, flannery shouldn't have got his 1 year deal and replaced and so on.

Instead we've kept these type of players and they have got old and all need replacing at once now.

In simple terms, plan ahead.

what do you think they have been doing? if you want good examples of not planning look at Warrington OR Leeds they really will be up the creek over the next 2-3 years when all their 30 yr olds drop off.

Gardner will be replaced by Makison - and before you or anybody else screams the "we need pace" mantra - I would suggest we sign Penny if that is teh criteria. Meli is STILL one of our strike options and his scoring rate is way up there - true we havent effectively replaced Talau but then Wigin are trying to convince themselves that Joel is the great white hope in centres, and when Carmont goes they will have 0 centres. Flannery is a solid hardworking 2nd rower who we miss dreadfully when he isnt in the middle of the park.

Wellens is still probably the best British full back in the british game - true he is getting to the end of his career but when he is on - there is no one better.

Over the last 5 years we have lost - Joynt, Lyon, Long, Sculthorpe, Cunningham - any team would struggle to replace one of these (all of whom are hall of fame players) yet we have done this job quietly and efficiently. I cannot believe the dummy spitting going on because we aren't winning everything like in 2006 - that team was unique we are rebuilding get over it.

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