Despite being next to bottom of the table I still they will make the 8 - the game against Cas is pretty crucial now - they need to win that, can't see them getting much out of Wigan or Warrington but after that they should win 6 of the last 7 with a stronger side that would give them 20 points which is what it took to make the 8 last year

What a tedious end to the season...at least in the middle 8's we might see some opportunities for the young 'uns (and some of the seniors like Watkins) to let rip against some poor part time opposition, giving them much needed boosted confidence for 2017

Not bothered. We can't make top 4, so the top 8 is irrelevant. We also won't go down. Just keep giving the youngsters game time

Not as long as they have a hole in their ....................................

How long can we go on saying the next match is crucial and lose by a tight margin?
Lets face it this season is a right off and an early exit from the cup may not be a bad thing.
Keep playing the youngsters this year and giving them invaluable game time, we are definitely building for 2017 season. If Lilly keeps gaining in confidence he could be a starting half for next year. Is this Burrows and Mags last year? could be so we need to build on Suttclife and have to get a quality number 9 in. I'm still reserving judgement on Galloway as I know he has more in him, can he produce in a team that is on the front foot?

Making the 8 is an absolute irrelevance if there's no chance of the top 4. You just end up with a bunch of players going through the motions waiting for the season to finish and getting beatings off the play-off contenders.

Missing the eight might force a clear out of a few: Delanney, Achurch, Hall, Falloon, maybe even Ablett and a re-think of the coaching set up

Delaney, Achurch and Faloon yes; Hall maybe, with the emergence of Handley...but why Ablett? Still our best second rower by a mile. Ferres might yet prove so, but who else have we got if Ward is pencilled in at LF, if and when he ever recovers?

True, but I'd point out last year Warrington, Hull and Catalans had pretty much no chance when the Super 8's started and looked like teams using it as preparation for the following season and now see how well they've done this year.

Warrington's focus was on 2016 from pretty much mid-August, we were still fighting for the GF up to the 2nd weekend in October. You're talking about around 7/8 weeks difference there which shouldn't be underestimated.

Ablett looks a shadow of the player he was two years ago - it could be that he is playing injured most of the time.

In the second row you have JJB - our best second row, Ferres, Ward, Smith, Walters, Keinhorst surely that is enough?

a big clear out that would mean a big recruiting drive in the offseason .Hall is next one up for a testimonial so I don't think he will be going next year

It hasn't been this year as we're having to start Achurch there due to lack of fit bodies.

For the likes of Ablett and Hall who have struggled this season then just look at JJB, a lot on here would've moved him on in recent seasons.

By the looks of Ablett in particular I think he came back from his original ankle injury too soon and wasn't properly fit.

As for Hall, we know what he can do and comes up with big plays in big games. He's been a virtual ever present since 2009 for both us and England. A first lengthy absence might be just what he needs so will be better to judge him on his return, if he's still struggling then their's an issue.

JJB plays 3rd prop/LF not second row; is Smith a second rower?; Walters is crap and Keinhorst is our very useful, competent utility player. Nope! not convinced we should let Ablett go.

If you're clearing out back-rowers, then it's Achurch and Walters for mine. Neither offer anything you wouldn't get out of the likes of Cam Smith or Josh Jordan-Roberts.

I agree, Achurch is a certain goner at the end of the year anyway and Walters, he is a trier i will give him that but some of his attempts at tackles are shocking, and i just don't see him ever being a front line SL back rower.

I think Walters has done ok-ish in a few games this season compared to his mostly disappointing 2015 but he's always going to be someone in the 21-25 shirt number region and no further up the pecking order. If you've got new signings lined up then expendable but if not then fine to keep around for numbers. He'll also be cheap unlike Achurch so not really too much you could bring in on his wage that'll be a significant upgrade.

I agree Printer, but to me he is not a player i would want blocking the path to other young lads looking for a break.I don't see him ever becoming a fixture in the 17 when all are fit anyway although Mac does seem to select him over others you would expect to get in over him at times, how much that has to do with his match winning score at OT who knows?

Alex Sutcliffes is a definite upgrade, and I would guess much cheaper. Would not want his development blocking.

He'd need bulking up & filling that something which has done Walters no favours whatsoever.

People are obsessed with bulking up on here. A player of the exact same build and muscle mass but 10 years older and no one would mention it.

They would, they just isn't 27/28 year olds playing with the build, muscle mass, ligament/tendon strength and muscle toughness of 17/18 year olds.

So why do teams spend so much time in the gym if bulking up has no benefit?

I didn''t say it has no benefit. Players are bulking up in the gym from 14 at most junior clubs, then continue this further in scholarships, and further again on pro contracts. I just pointed out the obsession with bulking up that is immediately levelled at a player who is not past 20. The physical side of our game isn't the main issue to most players with a skill set, it is speed of the game that is key difference between making it and not. Of course to improve you will then need an edge, which would probably be strength. But this shouldn't stop the starting development. if you go to most clubs gym sessions the major concentration is on legs anyway, not filling out.

If junior clubs have kids in the gym at 14 adding muscle mass - often under the supervision of unqualified but well-meaning amateurs - then they are going down a dangerous road.

The physical development of young players is best left to qualified, experienced conditioning staff who can manage the process in a way that does not adversely affect their growing bodies. If that means waiting until they are 16/17 and on scholarship programmes, so be it.

We've all seen from watching Walters over the last two years how adding too much muscle in the legs can adversely affect a player's athletic ability.

Walters is a bit of a strange one. Upper body doesn't look massively different to what it was, but below the waist it looks like he's had an ar$e transplant from Kim Kardashian.