Whilst we resolve whatever it is that ails us long term.

Take the two. Every single time. We're not good enough to refuse them. Game after game it drives me mad that we decline kick-able penalties, squander the opportunities and then find ourselves scrambling late with desperate kicks. When we get things clicking again think about reintroducing the run every penalty policy.

Remind Adam Cuthbertson that he is a prop, not a stand off. Which is actually quite a worry because he is our most creative player and, alarmingly, seems to be our last tackle option more and more. But he is a prop. Last season he was useful successful because he took us forward and offloaded. This season he is not taking us forward. He is not alone in that respect but he is better than most at it and he should be leading us in that direction.

Speaking of last tackle options, just kick it. Stop the Harlem globe trotter last tackle shenanigans.

Agree with most of that, we should definitely start taking the two.

I think in some games Cuthbo has put his head down and just put some graft in. He does look less effective, part of this is other teams shutting him down, but I also think he is having to do more donkey work at the minute, others need to step up a bit.

And couldn't agree more with the kicking, I'd be much less frustrated if we at least tried to force a mistake or repeat set. All our options, including the more experienced ones seem scared worried, quick to pass the responsibility on, which leads to what we've got now.

This

Agree with all that the OP said. In fact if they did what he opened with I would bet at least another two victories would be under our belt.

The Cuthbertson one frustrates, because even this season we know he can do it. The Watkins try at Cas, where he ran hard with a bit of footwork, found the floor and allowed Falloon to get out and put Ablett away was a perfect example. Just needs to be reminded that's his job. not organising runners and putting on plays from first man.

Maybe the latter is the job that McDermott has given him? If not why is he not stopping him?

Hopefully now we have one half back players might be able to get back to what there good at like hardaker and cuthbertson

you don't have to be amazing to beat half the teams in this SL.with the players we have we should be able to overwhelm most sides simply with the sheer individual quality we posses accorss the park.doing the basics right and sorting out the ruck which is awful at the moment, and we would be well on our way to picking up wins and competing with the top teams again.

Someone who you actually have confidence can take the two helps as well.

Cuthbertson needs to be playing 13. He played his best rugby when played there.

What are the differences between Prop and Loose Forward in the modern game though?

I know what you mean but I guess there's more of a need for the prop to do grunt work. I don't think it's a coincidence that Singleton has often looked good when playing 13 too. It gives the player that little bit extra freedom to pick and choose when he gets involved as the grunt work is being done by 8 & 10.

RL is a simple game. You need to get the basics right before you can do the flash stuff. If anything on attack the mantra must be completing sets and getting the kick away. In terms of actual attacking moves one thing I've heard suggested by Joey Johns is to add depth to the line and don't try to be over-intricate. This gives more time to everyone to decide what options to take.

I think the issues with defence suggest that motivation is a factor as much as anything else. Pro players simply shouldn't be letting the tries in Leeds currently are.

Can't find the thread Widdopp was mentioned, but given that he's just led his team to a second consecutive clean sheet (sadly in the "For" column), he's probably not a fix we want*. I'm not sure he's actually set up a try with a pass over the season yet.

* In case anyone missed it, this is how I've linked this topic to a completely unrelated one.

I don't get what everyone sees in Widdop - very average player, to suggest he is better than Carney doesn't make sense on the visual evidence.

In the Melbourne set up with a very structured way of playing he was OK but as a creative force he lacks any kind of creative ability

People were taking into account that if we signed him he wouldn't exactly be facing defences as strong as NQC and Brisbane.

It's like saying a Premier League striker who hasn't scored many wouldn't be a good signing and score well for a Championship team.

That's true. But Travis Burns was more effective as a playmaker in the NRL than Widdopp is currently, and he was the definition of average. I don't see anyone claiming him as some kind of genius. I hope Widdopp gets his mojo back, as England need him desperately if he's going well.

Widdop's team, St George Illawarra got hammered 38 - 0 the other day. Very average for me, Carney,even with his demons, much better

Widdop had a nightmare of a game.

And therein lies one of Leeds' biggest structural issues in attack.

Watch how they line up, particularly in the opposition 20. There's usually one front-rower pretty much level with the play the ball who isn't a viable option and is there to block defenders sliding over. There will then be maybe another front-rower outside the first receiver who jogs through disinterestedly and engages absolutely no defenders whatsoever.

By the time the ball gets two or three passes wide, all that is outside the ball carrier is just a straight line of team-mates who are usually faced by a matching number of defenders with others sliding over from the inside. So the option is to either ship it on to someone who is marked, or throw the dummy and go on your own.

Look back at the Cas game. Two of their tries came from Gale going at the line with two or three live passing options outside him all running at different depths and angles. Leeds just simply don't run anything like that sort of structure. It's entirely reliant on a Moon, Watkins or McGuire producing a bit of individual magic to make a break. Now either attacking structures aren't getting coached through the week, or when players hit the field they're not smart enough to put what they've worked on during the week into practice.

Whatever it is, unless Leeds resolve it they're not going to to score enough points to win games.

I would say St George were very unlucky to have a score ruled out by the bunker after it went up as a try but that was as close as they got in a low key encounter.

St George's issue isn't just that they haven't scored so far on their Queensland Tour, it's that they've barely crossed at all this season whether with or without Benji - they are the NRL equivalent of Leeds in 2016.

You lose confidence defending if you know you are struggling to do anything with the ball.
Depth on attack helps. Keep it simple, drive the ball hard and direct around the ruck and have good attacking depth to use for when you get a good drive and quick PTB. And be patient.
If you give the ball to the outside backs with a bit of space between them and defenders then, you're right, there are options. Also defences can lose communication, the temptation is always there for the individual defender to rush up and try and make a tackle behind the gain line instead of waiting and moving up as a unit.
We have been IMO far too flat under McD. It's very difficult to execute when you have lots of changes in the team and certain guys are not in form.

Agree with bulk of this. We have also often relied on the running of burrow to break open defences in past years. These also become less as his pace ebbs and the team rarely get on front foot. The flat, lateral style also gives little time or space for the halves. Be interesting to see if we try and change approach later in year if we continue to struggle to score.

It's been the same for the last decade. We've always just relied mainly on players playing what's in front of them. Mcguire Sinfield and burrow. You get the offloads from the forwards and the speed outwide. It's won us loads, but sinfield is gonenow, with mcguire and burrow past their best and reaching the end of their careers. We need to move in a new direction.

quick fix, run a few simple set plays for last tackle options and watch the world club challenge game back- only 50 minutes, we played well, defended hard and controlled and attacked well, want that standard of rugby back, not the rubbish we are seeing weekly at the minute