We have a very good squad, albeit with a few key and not-so-key injuries.

The team are working hard, so it is not an issue of attitude. There's only been one real blow-out defeat, against Widnes. Aside from them and Wigan, most games have been lost in very close circumstances. It is still a cause for worry, since something is obviously lacking - probably a combination of leadership and decision making at crucial times of games. But fixable with the playing resources at the club's disposal.

With so much success in the last decade, expectations have understandably built up. But the fans must be patient. We cannot expect to dominate every year in a salary-capped sport.

There is no crisis... at least not yet.

I wonder how many regular posters who disagree with me were Leeds fans:

a) In 2000, when Dean Lance took us to a record run of consecutive league defeats at the start of the season;

b) In 1996, when we narrowly avoided taking the wooden spoon, a mass exodus of all our best players, and the club came close to being wound-up before GH came in with Caddick to save us;

c) During the Doug Laughton era of the early 1990s, when Leeds made Koukash-style signings every season and were routinely spanked by the likes of Wigan, Widnes and others in the competition for major honours. Imagine being a Warrington fan of the last few years without their cup successes!

They will sort it out this year. It seems more a question of whether 2016 will this be a 2002, a 2006, a 2010 or even a 2003, maybe a 2014...

I understand we can't be top every year. But we are pretty far in the regular rounds with only two wins from 9 and just got beat by Wakey at home and we may already be out out of the top 4 fight.

It's easy to say it will get better, but another 9 games like the previous and we will be in the middle 8s which would be a disaster

I have been going since 1978, and had a season ticket since 1980, and I dissagree with you.

Not fully, but I dissagree with you. We don't have a great squad at all, as it is unbalanced. We have no out and out leader, and we have nobody to direct the team around the park. This was voiced before this season started, so not in hindsight. We have had many players throughout our success era who were carried by the likes of Sinfield. We don't have Sinfield, so poor players are found out, and we have a fair few.

I don't care how close defeats were, or even if it is a defeat. I car about performances, and the performances have been absolutely woefuly. It seems some posters, and juding by your post you, are only concerned with a result rather than performance. The performances thus far have shown we don't have the squad you and others think we have.

Are we in crisis? are we buggery in crisis. The competition is so poor, that top four is still a possibility despite our short comings. But would we win the big games when it matters? will we buggery. And that in line with poor performances is not something people want to pay to watch.

For me, and I believe from what I am hearing, is something the board are currently discussing. Is that the club need to take a step back to where they were, and take the full running of the football side away from McDermott, put a director of youth in place, proper coaches in the age groups, and the first team coach looks after the first team only. It is since we changed this previously that the production and proper development has dried up. The hunger in the club is not there, but the expectation levels are, and these expectation levels are what make the situation worse. All they need to do first is concentrate on offering a performance that is value for money, then the rest will come.

An excellent post - Leeds are like a lot of organisations that grow - how can they move to the next level.

It is not in their interest to kill off the competition, they cannot grow by purchase so the way to grow the business is through improved culture and longer term strategy and better management.

The whole club has grown flabby on the back of the golden generation, a bit like a firm the gets rich on the back of a killer product but doesn't have another killer product when the cash cow becomes a dog.

Youth development was crucial when the club had no money but less so when the cash position is more stable - it reminds of writer who says he has writers block, they never get that when they are skint.

The business has lost its connection with its fans/customers - the celebration at the arena is an illustration of how detached the club has become, charging loyal fans to celebrate with the team is a kick in the teeth and shows a level of arrogance that would not have been the case when Murray was the coach.

In those days there was a marque where fans could engage with the players post match, kids could get close to the heros - now its all corporate and the players are cordoned off from the very people who spend their hard earned money to support them.

Oh I've missed this. Guys saying how the club is doing everything wrong and would be better if they did the things they suggest.

The club holding an event at Leeds Arena apparently a massive flaw, must mark that down with the club also being badly run because JJB modelled an away kit a couple of years back.

the homecoming can be held anywhere but the arena was a quick buck for someone at the worst showsec and arena bars. (how much stewarding compared to homecoming of cc. )

before murray , (who did make average players better) ward and laughton had players circulating different bars and the 80s most used the season ticker bar.

Boxing day game jjb and simmons had to coax players across the divide in the long bar

If you have nothing more to add to the debate perhaps it would be better if you diverted your posts to topic more within your compass?

Nobody said the club was badly run - just that it has reached a level which requires a different skill set to move it on.

It is easy when you have a huge overdraft, an under performing team, supporter apathy, poor facilities to find ways to improve matters. When you have the best team, biggest supporter base, money in the bank perhaps the motivation to drive things forward isn't quite the same? This is still a small business and it would not take a lot for the numbers to have brackets around them.

The game as a whole has issues with revenue generation, the product on the field, participation these are huge challenges - Leeds is not immune to these.

some good points especially regarding the homecoming . In the successful era the club has been quick to entice supporters to part with hard earned cash which on the back of winning trophies is easy to do . Even a short period of mediocrity will lose that goodwill . The taking away of the supporters club still sits badly with many die hard fans and the dross thats served up in the south stand bar at ridiculous prices has done nothing to help matters . We are asked to pay over the odds for merchandise in the club shop , all this pales into insignificance when the team are winning but if the performances that we are watching now continues for a period of time then the goodwill can soon be lost . Second rate Aussies like Falloon and Galloway not to mention Achurch are not the answer and questions need asking as to why the likes of Mcshane and Hood were rated so highly and yet did not progress . How much more money would it have taken to keep the excellent Aiton . We have the best one to Five in the league as a group but they get little quality ball from our half backs or any forward dominance so are continually wasted . I understand its a salary cap sport and the injury to Mags has disrupted us but whilst i could excuse certain performances the games against Widnes and Wakey were unacceptable .

Perhaps the staged event at Leeds Arena disrupted the squad?

You know?

Like SPOTY and the Kiwis did?

It is funny how SPOTY, Kiwis, and Floods is on the list of excuses by people. Yet, as they were behind the club with the, Leeds Arena, McDermott USA boss, and McDermot no assistant, these of course have nothing to do with situation.

No only a moron would think that. The homecoming is something they do every time Leeds win a GF (you know the thing that sees you run off and hide for months afterwards) the next day. The only difference was location and that's because they were going to have the event regardless of the GF result as a goodbye to the 3 players + celebrate the first 2 trophies.

You'd have to be daft to think extending your season by a few weeks and a flooded training ground are comparable to having the very same homecoming we have most years in the last decade except it was indoors.

And the Kiwi game wasn't an excuse, it was a complaint.

Whoosh

But are the others comparable to the coach peeing about for a month coaching the USA team without a proper assistant back home to fill in?

William can you please give us a full update on the excuses now as i am losing count

Indeed, and if SPOTY and the Treble effected a mindset of unconscious complacency at the club according to the usual suspects of the excuse industry proclaim, then surely the Big-Noting, High-Fiving, Aren't-We-Ace, Leeds Arena Gig must have contributed to that too?

Like you, I believe the issues lie elsewhere.

I'll have a go. Not sure I can remember them all though. Some of them are related.

1. SPOTY
2. The Kiwis
3. The Treble
4. A mindset of unconscious complacency
5. November floods
6. The loss of world class sports science facilities
7. Silverwood

Definitely not the Big-Noting, High-Fiving, Aren't-We-Ace Leeds Arena Gig though.

Only morons would cite that as an excuse

Boxing Day floods not November

We can all be pedantic.

Without all that November rainfall and flooding, Boxing Day floods in Leeds wouldn't have occurred.

Aye, we wouldn't have fallen short in all 3 comps last year if we had an assistant.....oh wait. And he wasn't there for a month, a couple of weeks like he would do if he was on a holiday anyway.

I see William the puppeteer has himself a few puppets on the go. We all expect it of Sal and his constant brown nosing but seems you've taken some criticism on the previous page badly.....the irony being that you criticise the club for having "yes" men in it, however can't handle someone not agreeing with you yourself.

It's not pedantic it is fact. If the flood had occurred in November it would have a lesser impact on the pre season training. As it happened end of a December and into January had a much greater impact on training. It must have had a large impact on training which could have explained we looked a little under cooked early doors. It shouldn't have any effect now but certainly first few games would impact us

I'm with Gotcha on this one (not often I say that), the performances we've be subjected to this season have been woeful.

I don't think I've seen such a run of pish-poor, can't be ar[size=100s[/sizeed, half-hearted outings in many a year, at least not this century.

Shizer defence coupled with clueless attack and 'here we go again' attitude is leaving me feeling a little short-changed TBH. I know what this team can do and what they are capable of, so when we get subjected to the tripe that's currently getting served up I'm left feeling cheated.

It's like going to see The Rolling Stones and all they do is B-sides and album tracks... you're stood at the back shouting "do Start me Up".

Come on Leeds, let's hear "Satisfaction" and not "Always Suffering".

Criticism? Don't see any, want to show where?

Last year we had Sinfield and Peacock, whom the coach has often repeated did the training. But guess what they are not here any more, you do know that?

So, as I can not tell if you are serious or just been defensive, are you suggesting that SPOTY and the Kiwi game from the end of last season, have had an influence on our poor run, but you don't think the only coach thousands of miles away in preseason leaving the team without a right hand man to train, is an influence?

Did he repeatedly say it, or did he say it at the end of the year that they did in the last few weeks?



Both Plume and Eaton were here and they assist McDermott, hence assistant coaches and capable of training the few players who were back at that point (a lot of senior players still off after extending their season by a couple of weeks)

I see GH has finally come out and said something about the poor run. Pretty mild really - we've got a good squad, no rush to sign anyone and she'll be right. Quite different from a couple of years ago when he questioned whether the team had had its day (which even at the time seemed likely to be a bit of reverse psychology).