I just read that Walmsley has only got a one match ban, the charge was reduced to a grade B offence. while Moon got a two game ban. At the time even Sky thought Moon red card was harsh, while Walmsley had intent. So why the different approach from Red Hall. Some people would argue that it is down to the influence of Mr Ganson the head of refs. But who could believe that!!!!!. Then we have had the so called investigation of Zak H which showed nothing happened and took over two weeks. Intersting times.

For me, Moon went to put the shoulder in on Percival and in the act of being tackled Percival (at no fault of his own) got dipped down. Thus the shoulder connected with the head. Red card and 1 match ban for the incident and poor technique etc. Instead he got 2.
Walmsley (a player i'd love to see at Leeds) sloppy late shoulder charge, which connected with the head. At no point did he go to wrap his arms around, so for me it's a shoulder charge to the head. Red card and 2 games like Moon. Instead gets 1 game...
I know the excuses are flying about size difference, but this wasn't a tired swinging arm from a prop on a side stepping half back. Walmsley was committed to the tackle, a now illegal style of tackle. He couldn't of pulled out in the same way Moon couldn't. Both being poor techniques and should of merited the same punishment.
Instead inconsistency reigns again IMO

Should've been at least the same as Moon if not more for the fact it was a late hit.

Then you've got the Mcillorum incident where he went in with clear intent and threw a shoulder into the back of an unsighted player who had long since let go of the ball. For me this is arguably the worst of the three as at least the other two had extenuating circumstances, yet it was the only one deemed fine and dandy. If the RFL are really in the business of protecting players then tackles that late need at least a yellow card.

For me neither Moon or Walmsley should have been off or banned. Game just getting far too soft.

Ones from behind, late, and cowardly however, should be dealt with appropriately. These seem to depend on which club you play for.

There is a clear distinction between the Moon and Walsmley red cards.

Walmsley was attempting a tackle, Moon made no attempt to do so. Simple.

If you think Walmsley's was a shoulder charge then you must think every tackle is a shoulder charge. Use of the shoulder doesn't directly lead to the conclusion that there was a shoulder charge.

Neither were shoulder charges, Walmsley's was just as poor an attempt as Moon's

Walmsley had his arm around Robinson in the tackle, and initial contact is over the shoulder.

Moons arm wasn't around Percival, was the definition of a shoulder charge (intent isn't taken into account here), and first contact is on the head.

I think both judgements are fair for their circumstances, I am frustrated however that worse incidents than either of these two were ignored completely in the Wigan vs Warrington game.

I think we may have to disagree on this one, for me Walmsley makes just as much intent to hit with the shoulder as Moon did, both had raised arms but not enough to affect a correct tackle


[urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8BNokSR9B8[/url

[urlhttp://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-league/9466984/was-walmsley's-red-warranted?[/url

Yep.

Quote ="Tony Soprano"I think we may have to disagree on this one, for me Walmsley makes just as much intent to hit with the shoulder as Moon did, both had raised arms but not enough to affect a correct tackle [urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8BNokSR9B8[/url [urlhttp://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-league/9466984/was-walmsley's-red-warranted?[/url'" www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... 2014/page5 Couple of posts down. Arm on the back, and contact has been made but not with the head. Slightly late? Yes. Clumsy? Most definitely. Worthy of a 1 game ban? Probably. Shoulder charge! No. And as I said, intent has nothing to do with the gradings.

Quote ="Tony Soprano"I think we may have to disagree on this one, for me Walmsley makes just as much intent to hit with the shoulder as Moon did, both had raised arms but not enough to affect a correct tackle [urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8BNokSR9B8[/url [urlhttp://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-league/9466984/was-walmsley's-red-warranted?[/url'" www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... 2014/page5 Couple of posts down. Arm on the back, and contact has been made but not with the head. Slightly late? Yes. Clumsy? Most definitely. Worthy of a 1 game ban? Probably. Shoulder charge! No. And as I said, intent has nothing to do with the gradings.

Thanks for posting a link to that picture although I'm unsure what it proves/disproves

Like I said, both reckless contact with head but not old fashion shoulder charges IMO

Looks that way to me too. In Moon's case you could argue that the complication of Bailey making the tackle and altering Percivals' running line and dropping him down at the last second adds more mitigation. Walmsley just lines him up and hits him.

Having said that, I am not sure either incident could be seen as what the ban on shoulder charges was brought in to prevent. Penalty, warning letter/fine or 1 match ban on review at worst.

Moon, standing still, hits guy who is tackled and going down in the head with his shoulder. It's a red card.

Walmsley runs at a player at speed who then passes the ball and flattens him with his shoulder. It's worst than Moons. He knew what he was doing - he gave away the scrum that led to that play so was trying to make amends with a big hit.

I think Walmsley has been lucky for it not to be classed as a shoulder charge but it was definitely late and high.

Moon's challenge, in my opinion, was awful. He had no reason to even join in the tackle, let alone then throw his shoulder while stood still. It's not even as if he just timed his run wrong or went for a big hit.

What does annoy me though is the number of high tackles and face rubbing that goes on without being penalised.

Why not? It's Rugby League, putting multiple players into tackles is a key defensive strategy. What if he'd stood and watched and Percival had wriggled out of Baileys tackle? You have to have some appreciation about how quick all this happens, Moon would have mentally commited to a challenge early, he can't wait to see if anyone else tackles Percival.

I don't have a problem with both incidents being being red cards. I've said on other threads about the speed, strength and power of players today and I think players have to be very careful when tackling. Neither of these incidents were just arms stuck out by a lazy/off-balance defender.

I'd agree that neither of them are shoulder charges but the shoulder, not just the arm, makes contact with the head so red card for me.

In my opinion they both should've been sending off sufficient as neither player have poor records but I don't see the reasoning behind a 2 game ban for Moon, who might have some mitigation (player falling etc), but a 1 game ban for Walmsley.

I'd have to agree with that. Moon was actually a mistimed tackle for me. He gets it wrong because Percival was too quick for him.

The Walmsley send off was ridiculous & should never have been graded as a shoulder charge.

The problem with both incidents is that slow motion replays made them look a lot worse than they actually were & could imply there was intent.

How Joel Tomkins got nothing more than a penalty for a deliberate late shoulder charge on a player with his back turned is beyond me.

He plays for Wigan.
They have been very lucky this year with how Redhall has viewed them.
Several players have escaped any sort of ban that other clubs including Leeds have had to face this year.
I think at one time Leeeds were given the same good fortune but certainly not lately.

Those were the days

You must be watching different clips to me. Moons arms are by his sides, he turns his body to use his shoulder (one of the main things they look for to determine a shoulder charge) he makes no attempt to wrap his arms around Percival, and the only contact is moons shoulder on Percival's face. Walmsley tackles robinson straight on, no turning to use the shoulder, he is wrapping his arms round him as he tries to tackle him. I've no problem with walmsley being sent off as he hit robinson in the head but there's no intent. If you look at the shot at the point of impact Robinson's backside is about a foot off the ground and walmsley is already about a foot taller than him. Not trying to say this makes it ok but it does explain it to some extent. There's no comparison between the two incidents at all, walmsley wasn't even charged with a shoulder charge.

Neither are that bad IMO. To the letter of the law both were red cards, think Walmsley's ban is about right, and Moon's is harsh.

That boring old chestnut




Walmsleys shoulder leading arm never moves!, his other arm strokes Robinsons back, sorry but I don't see how he "tries to make a tackle"





I never said it was a shoulder charge if you look back a couple pages.


[i"In the Panel’s opinion you used an illegal Shoulder Charge and made direct initial contact with the head your opponent (Robinson)"[/i

[urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5798[/url

Any incident where a player is concussed by a late hit or a shoulder is worthy of a ban IMO. I'm not going to quibble whether player x deserved a bigger ban than player y, I just think that the RFL can't afford to be seen to be doing nothing in the light of recent research. And the coaches need to do what they can to stamp it out too.