Just where are these two going to end up establishing themselves? Both have been promoted at a young age but both badly positioned? Are we looking at 2 future loose forwards?

Garry Schofield recently even went as far as suggesting Sutcliffe should be England LF !

I hope both don't end up going the same way as Clarkson....

Sutcliffe has played both halves and loose and looked more suited to the latter, TBF he was meant to play there tonight before Sinfield was withdrawn.

Whereas Ward has mostly been at 2nd row, might be worth a shot to give him a game in the halves. Not entirely sure he'll be the answer but let's ask the question.

Both are back rowers. Ward really needs a injury free run and a full pre season, last year he was excellent in the back row before he injured his shoulder, but he seems to be being asked to play a very physically demanding role before his body is ready for it.

Love Schoey but selecting Sutcliffe for England is barmy.

Why oh why we haven't switched around in last two games in the halfs I do not know. Ward could have been switched there last night, Moon against Catalans.

Halfs is a serious problem for us for weeks, we look so poor in comparison to other teams. Before Sinfields missing games he was looking poor, but perhaps the injury was effecting that. McGuire looks simply finished and an embarrassment to see such a great Leeds player finish his career like this. Sutcliffe, not at one point of the games he has played looks like a genuine long term half, but does work hard in the pack.

You do wonder if Burrow on return, he is going to go straight back in the halfs. Especially considering how good Aiton has looked on return.

Someone needs to take Sutcliffe to one side and explain that he is allowed to run with the ball and take on the line if he's going to be a half-back. So many times on Friday it was just catch and pass, often stood still.

Ward, I don't know. Not mobile or skillful enough for the halves, not currently big or physical enough for the pack. Starting to look like one of those who was good at age group rugby, but struggles in open age.

I'd go for a swap and go for Moon in the halves and Sutcliffe at centre for HKR.

Moon looks like he'd be happy to run at halfback, likewise Hardaker but we've seen he's desperately needed at FB.

At long last others are beginning to see what I saw a long time ago: Hardaker will make a great stand off

....BUT as I also said, when others were clamouring to include BJB at FB and move Zak to centre....(No for gawd's sake no I said; BJB is far too timid/weak in his defence and also weak in his returns) moving the far superior Hardaker from last line of defence will be a BIG mistake. Ahem!

I too would prefer to see Moon given a run at SO alongside Burrow when he returns. Much better!!! However, I think we have already seen that Sutcliffe - like Stevie Ward before him - does not a good centre make. What about moving Moon and bringing in the new kid, Handley, into the three quarters. Can he play centre?

Ward needs a full pre season, the last two hes had shoulder surgery, im sure with a full pre season he will be bulked up

I dont see Sutcliffe long term at Leeds, can see a similar route to what Gaskell has taken

Tbh I really don't think many at all called for Hardaker to be moved to centre to accommodate BJB.

As for Sutcliffe at centre, he had one gig there vs Wigan at Magic as a late replacement for the ill Watkins and the whole team was pretty off that day so wouldn't write him off playing there based on just that one game.

I have been saying the exact same thing about Sutcliffe and Gaskell. They seem so similar to me in their development. Everyone thought Gaskell was the next big star when he broke on the scene. He was a stand off, but Saints realised quite quickly he couldn't do it for them, so tried him in other roles, then decided they should try someone else who may be better. I am sure they don't regret their decision.

However, Sutcliffe has an advantage in that he can play in the pack, and still has time to develop there. So to totally write him off would be wrong, and unlike Saints could be decision we would regret. However, I would like to see them mover sooner rather than later on sorting our future half back options.

Moon at 6. I think we all want him to have a go at it.

Stevie Ward has had a good season and a half longer around the 1st team than Sutcliffe.

He still looks like a distinctly average, under sized second rower who brings very little to the first team. Hopefully it's all part of his development but it's frustrating to watch.

Sutcliffe has a much harder job as a youngster to play in the halves. It speaks volumes that the club have entrusted him with that role and not Ward.

Ward's not a half-back Gareth. He never was a half-back.

He played 6 in the Under 19s because he was probably the best player in the age group and they wanted him to get as much ball in his hands as possible. It's the way eager parents run an Under 10s side, and reflects badly on a professional setup IMO.

Ward had good ball skills when he was a junior IIRC he played half back at a game against Bradford at Odsal. Unfortunately that appears to have been coached out of him?

Using S.Ward as a battering ram doesn't exactly aid his development either imo.
For me he should be used as a ball playing 13 but its not how we play nowadays we tend to use the extra prop or battring ram esque Delaney.

He was named on the teamsheet at 7, in a game that Leeds went into without either McGuire or Burrow IIRC.

So it was more a case of make do and mend than anything else.

World of difference between having those skills in the much slower pace of Under 16 and Under 19 rugby, and being able to replicate them at first team level when your thinking time is much reduced. As Sutcliffe is starting to find out.

Agreed but you shouldn't have the natural skills you have coached out of you either?

A different view......

Perhaps these players had natural skills to excel at certain age levels.

Perhaps these players were good enough to shine against same aged players, 75/80% of whom won't reach SL standard.

But perhaps those natural skills were never good enough when faced with better older opposition.

Perhaps some people over-praised players in age groups, and when they look shaky at open age the easier thing is to say the "club failed" these guys rather than say we might've got ahead of ourselves and the lad isn't as good as we rambled on about?

Are the players in the positions they'll eventually suit? Perhaps not, but didn't Sinfield start out as a 2nd rower???

Perhaps instead of getting despondent and moaning about the clubs academy players because certain posters see them look good at a certain level and it not translate to first team......just perhaps they exercise some caution and realise looking good at 16/17 is a complete different ballpark to becoming a week in week out established SL player.

Maybe it's not the club doing wrong that this super talent at 16 isn't a super talent at 21......maybe they were never the super talent you thought all again.....but we know they'd never want to admit that.

I won't hold my breathe though.

Sinfield was a half back at academy level so nothing has really changed for him

It is very unlikely that the natural skills a player possess cannot be improved with appropriate coaching surely the coaches should be improving the weaknesses as well as developing the qualities to make a more complete player

Just guessing here Printer, and this is no dig so please don't take it that way, but you haven't played the game have you?

Yes I have thanks, quite a bit. Mixture of centre/2nd row if you must know.

Clear from your posts that due to being involved with juniors you have rose tinted glasses on for them to get games to the point it reaches impatience.

He's certainly not a second rower. He played a lot of his junior rugby as a half or a ball playing 13. He excelled at that level at it. It certainly doesn't appear that they see that as his role at first team level.

If they do see him as a 2nd rower then I am afraid that the hype doesn't appear to have been warranted, entering into his 3rd full season in the 1st team he looks like a distinctly average 2nd rower. Can anyone tell me that last time he made a tackle burst or offload against SL opposition?

It appears to me that they have taken an excellent ball handler and made him into the prototype McDermott head down up 2nd rower.

Whilst there is no doubting your view based on this season, last season up to his injury he was our best back rower, then injury struck. He has hardly played three seasons has he. He played back end of season in 2012, and ended up playing in a CC final and a GF, then last year two thirds of season he was injured.

He had all the ingredients to be just like O'Loughlin. But the club coaching staff took a different direction with him. Whether they are shown to be right only time will tell.

If Ward was our best back row forward up untill injury then thats news to me (not many to choose from ) Ablett by miles when he played in 2nd row . The facts are that Ward shows nothing special in any aspect of his play and is just not big enough for me .