Ian Kirke's position in our stats for this year, along with the people better/worse than him.

Tackles: 6th, 526. (1st Peacock, 2nd JJB, 3rd Ablett, 4th Sinfield, 5th Clarkson)

Tackle Accuracy: 3rd, 83%. (1st Ablett, 2nd Moon) *of players with more than 400 tackles

Busts: 15th, 14. (level with Leuluai & Singleton, ahead of Bailey, Delaney & Moore)

Carries: 15th, 180. (ahead of Achurch, Singleton, Sutcliffe & Moore)

Metres: 14th, 1317. (ahead of Achurch, Singleton, Sutcliffe & Moore)

Average Gain: 10th, 7.3. (highest of any forward with more than 5 appearances)

Offloads: joint 11th, 12 (level with Ablett, ahead of Clarkson & Delaney)

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I don't claim these are the stats of a star prop. But as the stats of a 20-minute give-JP-a-breather prop, they are at least comparable to others in the squad.

The best stats we could have would be all the absolute ones used in this post, adjusted for minutes on the pitch. Tvoc?

They're also less than 1/10th of the number of individual stats that the players are actually measured against. We see the headline grabbing stats each week and some people think that leaves them in a position to judge.

I was half expecting a tattoo of him flicking the bird at you all on his face or something.

brilliant!

You must be proud Mrs Kirke but whilst young Ian is happy to accept his role as an inhaler for his superiors I'm not happy to see a prestigious blue and amber jersey wasted in such a fashion.

Oh, and he gets more than 20 mins.

He's a waste of a jersey.

Yours chief Kirke hater.

He'll let JP do that for him. His job is to give JPs index finger a rest until JP is ready to flip the bird to us haters.

Ahh comparing stats against 2 young lads (Sutcliffe ,Singleton) who have just broke through into the team and also btw he's played more games than Bailey ,Moore ,Achurch Singleton and Sutcliffe.
For a Champion team as 3rd/4th choice Prop and a regular in the matchday 17 he doesn't do enough or run his weight and size.

A Kirke thread?

It's been a while.

Kirke must be well miffed that Vickery is no longer here

Stats can be used to show anything. As the forward who has played most games he's likely to fair pretty well in cumulative stats

Clutching.at.straws

BURP.

I'm not inclined to scrutinise these too closely but dude Moon, Kirke, Ablett are nowhere near close to being Leeds most 'accurate' tacklers of those that have made over 400 in 2013. They sit 10th 11th and 12th respectively of the twelve players I have on that list.



I don't have access to minutes played - I've tried but found it extremely time consuming even for the televised games let alone any of the others.

What we do have now though is those stats reported by Opta over a full Regular Round season and here are the key ones (IMO), just for the players generally regarded for the prop positions.

2013 Appearances (SL Regular Rounds Only, from a possible 27)

1 - Kirke – 26 (Inc 23 Subs)
2 - Peacock – 23 (Inc 1 Sub)
3 - Leuluai – 19 (Inc 2 Subs)
4 - Moore - 16 (Inc 13 Subs)
5 – Singleton - 14 (Inc 5 Subs)
6 - Bailey - 11 (Inc 1 Sub)

The following are all expressed as an average per appearance

Metres:

1 - Peacock - 156.17
2 - Leuluai - 85.84
3 - Singleton - 66.43
4 - Kirke - 50.65
5 - Bailey - 50.00
6 - Moore - 49.38

Carries:

1 - Peacock - 23.57
2 - Leuluai - 12.00
3 - Singleton - 9.86
4 - Bailey - 9.00
5 - Moore - 6.94
6 - Kirke - 6.92

Metres Per Carry:

1 - Kirke - 7.32
2 - Leuluai - 7.15
3 - Moore – 7.12
4 – Singleton – 6.74
5 - Peacock - 6.63
6 - Bailey – 5.56

Tackle Busts:

1 - Peacock – 1.87
2 - Bailey – 1.18
3 - Singleton – 1.00
4 - Leuluai – 0.74
5 - Moore – 0.56
6 - Kirke – 0.54

Clean Breaks:

1 - Peacock – 0.13
2 - Singleton – 0.07
3 - Kirke – 0.04


Tackles:

1 - Peacock – 32.57
2 - Bailey – 24.45
3 - Singleton – 22.21
4 - Kirke – 20.23
5 - Leuluai – 19.00
6 - Moore – 13.88

Missed Tackles:

1 - Peacock – 1.83
2 - Kirke – 1.65
3 - Singleton – 1.50
4 - Bailey – 1.45
5 - Leuluai – 1.16
6 - Moore – 0.94

Tackle Success:

1 - Peacock – 94.69%
2 - Bailey – 94.39%
3 - Leuluai – 94.26%
4 - Singleton – 93.675%
5 - Moore – 93.671%
6 - Kirke – 92.44%

Penalties Conceded:

1 - Peacock – 0.957
2 - Bailey – 0.636
3 - Leuluai – 0.632
4 - Moore – 0.625
5 - Singleton – 0.571
6 - Kirke – 0.231

Errors:

1 - Bailey – 0.55
2 - Peacock – 0.52
3 - Leuluai – 0.47
4 - Moore – 0.44
5 - Singleton – 0.43
6 - Kirke – 0.38

(All are only in the view of Opta so how much store you invest in them is a matter of personal opinion.)

Our opinions count for ZILCH.
I only know that 3 coaches, including our present coach,have selected Kirke on a regular basis.
Maybe they see something that you're all missing.
I bow to their superior knowledge of the game and the man.

Stats don't always tell the full story but these certainly tell us that JP is a beast!!!

Carries:

1 - Peacock - 23.57
2 - Leuluai - 12.00
3 - Singleton - 9.86
4 - Bailey - 9.00
5 - Moore - 6.94
6 - Kirke - 6.92

Metres Per Carry:

1 - Kirke - 7.32
2 - Leuluai - 7.15
3 - Moore – 7.12
4 – Singleton – 6.74
5 - Peacock - 6.63
6 - Bailey – 5.56

These two stats combined tell me that a large proportion of Kirke's carries are returning kickoffs. I see him every week and I don't see him rampaging through challenges and gaining yards better than peacock does. I see him crumble at contact.

If he made 3 carries that week I'll be at least one or two were kick returns menaing he volunteered himself to take the ball in once or twice.

Shocking that anyone would defend that.

Without going back through video, I can't confirm or deny that supposition but that's all it is isn't it G1 - a supposition?

Course the fact that the overwhelming majority of the kickoff/drop-out returns at Leeds are done by Peacock or Leuluai won't have hurt their figures either but we'll gloss over that inconvenience.

I could neither confirm nor deny your supposition that may assertion was mere supposition rather than accurate recollection.

Overhwelming majority? Supposition Andy?

When kick returns form a much smaller percentage of your carries because you're not scared of taking the ball in then they will not skew the figures to the same extent they do for the BFG

Not supposition on my part, evidence based observation over a significant period of time.

The overwhelming majority of drop outs and kick offs go to the right hand side of the receiving team's formation, by virtue of most kickers in the league being right footed.

That tends to be where Peacock stands when Leeds are receiving restarts, or when Peacock is off the field where Leuluai goes. The two best ball carriers in the side, which makes sense given the space that is usually available particularly off GLDs.

Let me respond in kind but slightly less wordy.

I see Kirke return kicks plenty. I see Kirke take the ball in not much.

..and whilst I can't recall the exact numbers a few weeks ago TVOC did watch the video and pointed out on a separate thread that at least two of Kirke's four or five carries that day were kick returns.

Even one is a very high percentage when you take the ball in so little.

I'll watch for it with my notepad tomorrow.

I have to agree with this

When evidence is produced that confronts your prejudice... you just make it up. Kirke has the best metres per carry of all forwards this year and has maintained this average over all our league games bar one. You pathetically try to make out that this has to be because he gets easy yards because he takes more of the kick returns than the other props. What utter nonsense.

You witter on about Kirkes poor number of carries without regard to the fact that this is not his main role and without regard for the number of minutes played. Yes his number of carries is low but if in addition he is making tackles every 40 seconds or so, as last week, please explain how his efforts for the side are any worse than his team mates?

the main thing them stats show is singleton should have been playing all year!...oh and peacock did ok

When you've finished wittering on tell us how many minutes Kirke played please?

Then tell us how you know what Kirke's main role is.

What evidence has confronted my prejudice? I have consistently complained that Kirke doesn't carry the ball forward enough. The stats confirm that.