Hi Everyone,

Hudds fan in peace here, thanks to all those that made the trip over on Sunday, maybe see you again at some stage in the playoffs with a bit of luck.

Just wanted to know what you thought about your forward pack at the moment. With JP and KL getting on a bit, Bailey being Bailey, Moore not really playing much etc, i wondered what you thought of your forwards, and from a Giants point of view, how big Griff has gone on for you guys this year/how you see him going in the future?

I think Leeds have some of the best young british backs in the game, do you think your forwards can provide them with the platform to build on more success?

We have had a massive problem in this department this year, and it has proved how important a big powerful pack can be. Have you made any signings for next year as yet?

Griffin has ad some good games and some not so good which pretty well reflects the teams efforts asa whole.
I personally would like to see Griffin start more and get longer stints.
As for our pack overall many of us have called for an "over-haul" with at the very least 1 sh##-house Prop and a line breaking BR whilst the 9 debaye also rumbles on.
I personally think its a mistake to have Kylie and JP (i would have let Kylie retire)signed up for next year and although he's become more consistent over the last 3 months i also think we should release Kirke which if rumours are to be believed is happening.
Hauraki has proved to be a poor signing and he is Cas bound apparently which i agree with i'd also switch Bailey back to Prop and hope to see Brad Singleton get more gametime next year along with hopefully Daniel Smith.
We need some fresh faces full of power and pace in the pack and a bit more rotation and competition for spaces.

PEACOCK - Showed lately he can still perform, but can't do it on his own anymore like he could a few years back and like Graham did for Saints. Some have said he should retire at end of this year but i think he can still go another year provided he's not flogged to death with too many minutes, Warrington have started Morley on the bench at times this year and think that's what we need to do a bit more next season depending on the oppostion.
LEULUAI - Showed at Wembley on Hodgson you still wouldn't like to be hit by him and been given another year but his lack of doing lots of minutes and the reduction of interchanges from 12 to 10 equals the wrong call imo.
BAILEY - Despite being the pantomine villian in many people's eyes he has actually played well at Loose this season up until the CC Final. It's only a temporory switch as i expect either Ablett or more hopefully Ward to be starting 13 next year.
MOORE - Done ok when given a game but then still gets dropped for the next game usually, even though he's played decent when picked still a pointless signing i think as the games he's played could of easily been given to one of the young promising props we have in the U20's.
KIRKE - One of those squad players probably not on too much of a wage that every team will have with a salary cap. Shows on occasions he can do a decent job, just needs to do it more often.
GRIFFIN - Not had a spectacular first year, some good performances mixed in with some quite poor ones. Would do and has previously benefitted more i think when he gets a start/more minutes as he revealed a few months ago that he spoke to McDermott about wanting to be trusted with more involvement in matches.

JJB & DELANEY - Both work horse Second Rowers but do you really want 2 of the same type in that position? JJB like Peacock perhaps been overused and a few starts on the bench next year might be better.
HAURAKI - Too often disappointed and rumour is he's Castleford bound.
CLARKSON - Had a good 2010 debut year and went ok as a starting 13 tackling bag in 2011. Doesn't offer no impact in attack coming off the bench into the second row though and not good enough to be a starter, i expect to see him at a bottom half of a table team within 2 years.
ABLETT - Good but not great Second Rower or Loose, seems to have spent half his Leeds career filling in at centre and may well still start the 2013 season in that position.
WARD - Tipped to take over from Sinfield, not only as leader but at 6 aswell, but whilst he's still around i think starting Loose should be his position next year.

HOOKER - This is a large part of the problem as we don't have a great hooker to guide any set of forwards we pick around the pitch. BURROW is a great impact sub, not a starting hooker, he might be able to do more exciting things than any hooker in the league with ball in hand but that doesn't help are pack. LUNT got off to a blinder with one of the best debuts i've seen at Headingly against Catalans but sadly now looks average and i don't think we should try to get him permanently. PAUL McSHANE has looked decent on loan at Widnes but don't think McDermott is keen on him for whatever reason, whilst LIAM HOOD might do well if he's ever given more than several minutes.

We have MITCH ACHURCH coming in from Australia, don't know much about him but at least he's at a good age (24), not sure whether he'll be used more as prop or second row. Heard a lot of rumours of SCOTT TAYLOR from Hull KR joining and we have BRAD SINGLETON and DANIEL SMITH as promising young props. Not sure where KYLE AMOR will end up but doesn't look like back at Leeds.

Some things we need....
- To start games with a genuine hooker.
- Share the workload better and not expect Peacock to do it all.
- Use are subs bench better, starters are doing too many minutes and subs too few and usually brought back off before they've even had a chance to get going.
- a new starting prop (unless the likes of Griffin or Bailey can stand up)
- a better attacking second row player.

Two of the same type except one drops the ball all the time and gives away silly penalties.

Disgusting is that, the whole 'being yourself thing'.

A pretty good synopsis.......

, but you lose marks for the use of 'are' instead of 'our'



(You're probably one of the 'of' instead of 'have' and 'your' culprits too I suspect.

)

I disagree strongly with the Ablett appraisal

Whatever happens in this close season,this time next year the Sleeve will have been very busy I hope.JP and Kylie will both have definately be gone and the forwards will definately need major strengthening if we are to compete

I Think a big FR is needed and a hooker diskin has not been replaced (hard shoes to fill) but just a top class hooker and forward would have a massive impact and improve the pack ten fold

is feka someone who could fill the front row on their own

ThePrinter has given Ablett a fair appraisal, IMO.

Yours may also be fair but perhaps you'll have to expand on it a little.

Buderus and Lauititi then maybe ?



Does nobody now think that Liam Hood can step up and command the starting hooking role next season ? Many seemed to think he was the more promising of the two young pretenders to Buderus' (or Diskin's) throne....and I believe he is actually older than Darryl Clarke ??

McShane, I suspect, will probably never play for Leeds again (certainly while our incumbent head coach holds down [ihis[/i position) .....McShane probably argued vehemently that he was better suited than our [idiminutive billy whizz[/i to the pack raking role and was not prepared to be slapped down ("know your place, lad"icon_wink.gif.......and does anybody now think Lunt deserves the starting hooking role more than Hood next season ??

In fairness to Lunt though he too could be a victim of the 'player power' pecking order, in that Burrow has asserted his seniority to start alongside his compatriots McGuire and Sinfield, only to be then compromised by the 'kingpin' insisting he start at SO.......the difference between McShane and Lunt being that the latter showed more gratitude to get any look in after being rejected by H'field.

I saw Achurch against the Broncos a couple of weeks ago and he was pretty dynamic in his first spell, including a great offload up the middle. Physically he's a JP - tall and strong, not the shape of forward you'd generally expect to make the real hard yards up the middle, although Peacock has shown its possible.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses, its interesting to read the thoughts of people who see these guys week in week out, its probably hard to come by a second rower these days, Hudds have purchased about 12 and put them in the centre/prop/hooker/loose forward positions.

I think your props will be fine for next year and half of the battle is producing the youngsters to step up when you get a few injuries/retirements, which Leeds are notoriously good at. At Hudds we seem to be able to develop decent outside backs, but since Crabtree came through 10-12 years ago we have probably struggled in this area. Jacob Fairbank looks a real decent prospect for us but one a decade isnt good enough.

When Griff was at Hudds he was probably one of the more solid forwards, always made good yards, played decent minutes and usually was strong in defence, i think your right about him needing more game time/starting, i dont really think he has much impact from the bench.

It's a shame about Clarkson, when he came through i thought he would be a strong replacement for Sinfield who could develop into a top player, albeit not with the kicking game of Sinfield, he reminded me of a young Steven Wild. Seems you have many options coming through the academy to fill these areas.

Good luck in the playoffs.

Personally I think he has the ability to play a key role in our pack. As a forward I think he brings hard graft and a bit of niggle, along with good handling, and low error rates. He runs the best angles of any of the forwards, and can put people through gaps.

As a centre I think he is big and strong, and though not the fastest its not something that causes him trouble. As a centre he's probably as good at putting his winger away as anyone else at the club, through knowledge of the game, vision and good footwork. His combination of size and ability to make the pass mean he is a threat whenever he's near the line, when he is attacking against smaller opponents

My view remains he plays his best attacking rugby at centre where if a pass is on he'll at least look to give it - I don't notice him doing that anything like as much when in the back row where he'll bash it forward without ever hinting at busting through the other side. Defensively he is generally sound although less effective when left to make a one on one where he's all too often left thumping his fist into the ground in frustration rather than his opponent. Defensively centre/second row are interchangable at Leeds and he adapts to either role well, whether defending three or four in from the touchline.

I think he's a retaliator rather than a niggler. His involvement in incidents appears to be mainly after receiving a dig rather than after giving one. I prefer forwards who scare their opposition, Ablett simply doesn't.

Don't get me wrong i'm a fan of Ablett's and glad he signed a new contract this year and that's a pretty spot on assessment of him. That's why i said he was a good player but that still doesn't mean he can be labelled as a 'great' second rower. In my time of watching Leeds i've seen Adrian Morley, Ali Lauitiiti and Gareth Ellis all play second row who i would put in the 'great' category and i don't think you can say Ablett is the same level as those individuals, players who you knew every other club would love to have and even plenty in the NRL too, so again i'll go with good but not great.