Genuine question.

All those with plenty to say about this player not being good enough, that player not being good enough, so and so hasn't kicked on and improved, what were your thoughts prior to the st Helen's game?

felt the same about smith for a while.
i expected a blip and the losses to saints and the giants didn't bother me as they are quality sides.
last night was awful though, shocking

I would echo your comments tad awaful,awful performance from everyone

For me my opinions on kirke especially haven't really change in terms of thinking Singleton et al deserve a chance ahead of him.
I also think Clarkson could do with a spell back in the 20's because he's stagnated form wise imo and i also think Chisolm should get a run possibly at Bjb's exspence for a game or 2 because i'd like to see the younger lads form rewarded when the team are not performing.
I still think Smith ,Mcshane etc deserve to be re-tained and wouldn't of released Pitts either.
The form drop was always gonna come it's a given imo but ours again has hit when key players are also missing.
In terms of "negativity" fans can get emotional about performances and results which is normal and i enjoy decent debate re-players and performances and i don't think it's a bad thing either way we al support our team and want them to do well.
There are some that clearly understand the "Game" better than others but again i still think everyone is entitled to their say and i personally have no worries whether shown to be right or wrong.

A loss yes...but an embarrassing thumping, no.

I think quite a few have expressed concerns about Smith for some time now (even his previous supporters - and I [iwas[/i one of them).
McShane flattered to deceive in the WCC it now appears ....and as for the mystery of Kirke's continued selection in the first 17 (at the expense of Lauititi, Amor and now Pitts): say no more.

Smith as been having a "dip in form" for so long, he is now playing to form.
McShane having been in and around the senior squad for 4/5 seasons he as not improved as a player and shows no signs of doing so in the future.
Kylie is becoming less effective as each game passes by.
Kirke is just useless.
Clarkson offers nothing with ball in hand.

Why play 5 props, when given the reduction this season from 12 to 10 interchanges we should ideally only have 3 props in the 17.

I know we have a few injuries at present, but we should still be able to put out a side that shows some hunger especially against our nearest and dearest over Bradford way.

''We'll win it from 8th''

Agree with this. But I still have doubts about McShane.

SL today is all about momentum and confidence. Keep it up and the results will keep coming, hesitate and lose it and the tide turns so quickly against you. Our lack of class cover at both halfback and hooker is exposed when the momentum and confidence take a dip. It happened last year and is being repeated again now.

Thanks for your comments. I put last years awful season down to the new coach (and yes I did want rid of them both) coming in. I've since learnt that they changed a lot of things and the players took a long time to get used to it. Once they did get used ot it the results were fantastic. With that in mind I expected an assault on the top two this year so this blip is disappointing. Maybe its a WCC hangover, maybe we arent all that good, maybe we dont have a plan B.

It seems to have come as Mcguire and Webb are missing but I may be wrong.

What I will say is, and its been said many times, we can play as rubbbish as we want now, it doesnt matter as long as we build momentum for the playoffs and grand final and this club has proved its a master of that.

how long did smith play last night? it didnt seem long and he gifted the bulls their first try

i can stand getting beat by individual brilliance or by a better team but last night the bulls were just awful, the fact that they beat us shows how bad we were last night
hall looked dangerous in the first half but had to come inside during the second as we seemed to forget how to pass out wide
BJB looks scared witless with or without the ball and maybe needs a couple of weeks off and hood would get the nod from me as starting hooker

...and Burrow.

I can stand getting beaten too but last night's disappointment and embarrassment was in the lack of interest in doing any hard work shown by most of the team. I'm one of those who think Kirke is a waste of a team place most weeks but last night he added even less than usual, if that's possible! Combine that with Smith and McShane both appearing to be never out of third gear and the way in which many players plodded back at three miles a fortnight and you have the dour, boring non-event of last night. Smith had a bummer!
I felt that only Hall and at times Hardaker came out of it with much credit - apart from Stevie Ward that is. He did look raw still but he was the keenest of the bunch. Everyone had one of those games they will want to forget - JP will not forget that tackle though! It was the third time already this season that I have felt the team were well under par, lacked motivation and I saw no evidence of any real intent. That is worrying. I have the greatest regard for Sir Kevin but there appeared to me to be little impact from him in terms of captaincy. The whole team needed a kick up the butt if they were going to get going - they never did.
On the other hand I could have been seeing things wrongly (through my binos) - you can never tell at that hell hole! I was even further away from the action than usual stuck (with my hand in my pocket for the Bulls!) at the back of the stand! In the cold light of day - I can't think why I bothered.
JP won't forget that tackle, I bet Smith has already forgotten his biggest blunder. I can't forget that we can play superbly at times so I'll be there on Monday hoping for the real team to turn up. Here's hoping!

Can't we just bump last seasons threads?

No issues with macca he is only going to improve by playing games, he's lively out of DH,he has a decent kicking game, and is dangerous close to the line. We're in transition now so I don't expect us to be whupping teams every week although we should have beaten the bulls yesterday with all the ball we had. Positives are that ward and mc are getting plenty of game time. I agree with rhinoms singo should be given a chance at the expense of clarky or kirke, it's not that I don't rate clarkson cos I do and it's clear he's bulked up a bit this year and is still only 22, it's just I feel we need a bit more flair in the back row ATM.

I don't care too much about the score anymore.
I take each game on its own.
If we win, happy days......if we lose, get on with life & look forward to next game.
If Leeds reach finals along the way, and even win some, then that's a bonus
At the end of the day, it's only sport.

The club is in good hands, and success may not happen every year, but there will be many more grand final wins to come. No doubt about that!

The idea that a club with genuine title hopes would plan to finish as low as 5th is a myth. 1st/2nd still gives your best shot.

And Burrow as someone has already mentioned. Never was the absence of McGuire and Burrow felt more than when Stevie Ward broke down the middle only to look round and see absolutely nobody in support.

Felt the same about backrow since Pitts was dropped.

McShane is clueless out of dummy half, as a average at best kicking game and is not very dangerous close to the line. I agree it is a positive with Ward getting game time, however his game time needs to be managed. It is not a positive that McShane is getting game time. I am surprised that Singleton as not been given a chance. Clarkson a very good defender, however ball carrying ability is woeful. I agree we need more flair in the backrow along with more mobility.