As you'll see from my screen name I like Union but, being from Leeds and a former season ticket holder League is where my heart is.

This Joel Tomkins saga coupled with the emergence of some very exciting outside backs at Leeds has me concerned about us possibly losing players to Union in future.

Ask yourself this; If they're willing to take Smith & Hape why wouldn't they take Watkins, Hall, Hardaker or Jones-Bishop?

If Tomkins plays regularly for England RU I honestly reckon his pay will be in the £275k+ bracket.

I think Union clubs will be looking for young, home grown raw talent in Rugby League and I think now more than ever the financial benefits are too much for these young guys to turn down.

What does everyone else think?

The RFU won't be bank-rolling this kind of thing again, after getting their fingers burned too often. So it would be for the clubs to stump up the cash, and some of them are not exactly rolling in it these days.

In the national side they'll be more concerned with freeing the outside backs that they've got, who are plenty good enough, than bringing in new ones. I think they'll be looking to solve some structural problems this time, before they try to splash the cash on more players. England RU's biggest weakness is the lack of proper open-side flankers in the English game, and RL can't bail them out of that one.

Not saying the odd move isn't possible, but I doubt we'll be seeing a mass exodus of players.

Jones-Bishop has already been enquired about before.

Not every player is suited to both games. Just because you are good in League does not guarantee you been a successful union player.

For me, I happen to think in Joel's case he had a very good year in 2010, but has not kicked on this year and looks no better than many others in his role. Accepted he is been played out of position. However, that said it just so happens that centre in union may well prove to be very successfull for this lad, as he does look like a League player who could make the switch.

I fail to see where Watkins would fit in, in a union role. He is a league player through and through.

Personally, I don't think we have anything to worry about from union taking our players. We have a far superior product, and clubs are starting to get a hold of managing the cap properly. If someone is prepared to pay stupid money, well that's an exception and more the fool them. If rumours of the money offered for Tomkins are true, then they must be fooking stupid.

That said also, I still think we do need to increase our cap. But only to realistic levels, rather than paniky stupid levels. About 10% increase would see no problems for our game.

I think we have a issue with the cap in SL. We do run the risk of losing good talent to RU and to NRL. Going to NRL is not a loss to Rl as would probably improve national side but dilutes our competition, which is what I spend all year watching.

The trouble with our cap is a bit catch 22. Personally think it needs to be raised to compete with other brands, but also if it is raised some clubs can't spend to cap now! So would probably just see the big names blosom and the gap widen between clubs.

My main concern is that what League fans may think is crazy money is just normal wages in Union.

I'll give an example:-

Ben Jones-Bishop contract requires extending, Leeds offer £95k and Leicester offer £180k with potential for £100k per year extra in the form of payment for England appearance money (i'm sure i've read Union players get £13k per cap).

No huge transfer fee as the current deal is at an end.

Union have had their fingers burned by paying huge fees but I think they'll start being a bit more clever in future.

Scruton left Leeds for Bradford for the sake of £20k per year been paid to him a two years earlier. Look what he missed out on.

He wasn't lost to league, but his motivation was money. If they want to go they will go.

A lot of fairly big Union clubs are not paying their full caps as it is though. Ben Jones Bishop, as a relatively raw outside back, with no kicking game and no RU experience would be a massive, massive gamble at £180k, and would start a fair way away from being an England candidate. If they wanted to offer that, good luck to them, but they'd be in Gotcha's "fooking stupid" territory as above.

On England appearance fees (which I stress that BJB would be in no way certain of given the players in front of him in the queue) then the impending structural review of the national side set up is, as I'm hearing, quite likely to find that this isn't value for money as even the RFU are feeling the financial squeeze.

The RFU also used to pay a contribution to the wages of RL converts. THey won't be doing that again any time soon.

The cap level is a red-herring. It's the cap's structure (and in fact its aim) which is wrong. We suffer from a lack of imagination in ways to move forward commercially. For example, as I've done to death previously - a corporate investor might think he could get a good return on paying the wages for an ageing Jonny Wilkinson to try League - advertising, documentary series, etc. Don't flame me 'cos you think that particular idea is stupid - it probably is. My point is only that *if* a club can afford it (thru benefactors, investors or whatever - but not as a result of *debt*) it should be free to innovate...PROVIDED...that no club is allowed to sweep up talent and have it stuck in the reserves. (i.e. keep ultra-tight squad limits)

The problem is that huge numbers in the game think the cap's purpose is to 'equalize' competition.

This is incoherent nonsense.

Why for example, should Wakefield by given a privileged position? If you think it through, it's grossly unfair. Clubs above them are capped, whilst we supposedly wait for Wakefield to catch up and get into a position to spend the whole cap. But hang on...if you care about equal competition, why not cap Wakefield at a few hundred K until Leigh catch Wakefield and are in a position to spend the same as them. Clubs like Wakefield want it both ways - a privileged position to give them a chance to catch the leaders. A privilege they've done nothing to earn and a privilege they wouldn't agree to extend to Leigh (say) if the boot was on the other foot.

If they want the rest of the League to wait for them to make commercial advances, my first reaction is "you've had long enough and failed, tough", but if we decide to give them another chance, then OK, give them a deadline. "Average gates up 20% or you're out". This isn't actually an anti-Wakefield (or any small club) post. IF they amd the RFL are prepared to accept that the rest of League can be allowed to move forward then there's no need for such an ultimatum.

What makes Wakefield any more deserving of our special treatment than Leigh?

I would bet all the money i have! All the Tea in China and my left nut!! That once again Scroots would have been left thinking what a daft, stupid thing he did! there is more chance of me getting a start for the rhinos than scroots winning a medal again.

His extra cash will be no consulation to him in october again.

He could always use his extra cash to buy one of Keef's medals on eBay?

Keith's got more medals than you've got exclamation marks. !

Similar situation to Chris Ashton IMO, and look where he is. Patience is the key. He may make it, he may not

Yes, but not everyone who goes to RU has that success. I'm not saying he couldn't, simply that it's not a guarantee, and it won't happen overnight, so it isn't the massive immediate financial carrot that some might suggest. BJB could make it in RU, but it would be far from a certainty.

The game is and always will be bigger than Wigan.

The salary cap serves several purposes but one of them IS to stop a repeat of Wigan's buy everything domination of the sport in the early 1990s.

Besides which your whole premise is wrong - you seem to think that "smaller" clubs don't have any incentive to grow themselves, their crowds or their revenues due to the salary cap. That is seriously flawed logic.

This is a post that could only come from a fan of a club with a rich backer and an obsessive compulsive demand that they win every trophy every year forever.

And yet, it hasn't come from a Warrington fan.

Buying only the 13 best players in the world - which is the worst possible case scenario, in practise totally impossible (Wigan would need to by immensely rich to do that), still wouldn't give you total dominance. ( 3 injured at any one time, 3 out of form, who can even decide what 'best' 13 is anyway, etc. etc. )

Wigan skewed the competition primarily because they could have fielded 3 teams, 2 of which would have been in the top 3 and third mid-table at worst. THAT should never happen again.

What I want is clubs, any club to be able to buy *commercially attractive* stars, if there's a way to do so without debt.

Feel free to respond with cheap 'typical Wigan fan' digs, but whether you believe it or not, my argument is nothing to do with Wigan signing Billy Slater, and much more to do with Hull (say) signing Johnny Wilkinson. Which would do virtually nowt for their abililty on the pitch, but do absolute wonders for RL's profile, through news, sponsors, probably even a documentary...' Johnny does League

'. If there's a way to do that kind of thing without financial risk to the club (e.g. sponsor paying some or all of the wages) it should be allowed.

As to your point about incentive. I'm sure Wakefield would like to grow their crowds. But they seem to consistently fail. What's incentive got to do with it? They're crap at commercial development. We've tried to help, and they've still failed. Give others, like Leigh a go.

I'd go along with this, particularly if it really does result in Wilkinson turning out for Hull.

If I rememeber correctly (and I probably don't)...I think his brother played League in the Northeast. Gateshead?

Wakefield are more deserving at present as they have been awarded a SL license for the next three years whereas Leigh have not. Did Leigh even apply for one this time around?

Meh, these secondary trophy winning Lancastrian clubs are all the same to me

A couple of things help to prevent poaching by Union. Contracting your brightest stars on long-term contracts, and if things are working out, looking to re-sign them well before they run out. Seems to me that GH is doint this very well after the Walker/Smith experiences. Showing loyalty to young players can't but help when they consider options as well. That's why I hope Leeds don't sign another centre for next year but back Watkins and Hardaker instead.

Secondly, with respect to Leeds players, we have our very own Lee Smith who can testify that the grass may well be anything but greener in Union. We also seem to have a very tight-knit bunch of players - that will sway some people as well.

Union will probably always be able to offer more money - but the more failures that cross the better. For every Chris Ashton there's at least a couple who didn't make it.

Sparks is an animal. Did conditioning and fitness work for many teams in the North East. Tall, rangey, strong. Nails hard.

Johnny. If League could ever afford him, would be a success in League. He's scary quick over the first five yards, has a game brain I have only seen equalled in any form of rugby maybe twice, and he tackles like a steam train. Ask any of the Leeds Rhinos players who trained with him.

It amazes me that League fans talk of Union as this inferior game for girls and Southern types that League would dominate. And yet simultaneously talk of a game in which League players can't make it.

It's either dead easy and you go there to extend your career. Or it's not, and you go from a Great Britain League career to mediocrity having failed to make an impact. The only exception being Steve Myler. Who is frankly awesome and a pair of wingers.

Or they're two separate games where the skills required overlap to a certain extent, but in essence don't always translate from one to the other.

I think that most converts (in either direction) have the ability to make it, but never stick it long enough to make a good go of it

Think someone like Joel Tomkins has the skill pace and size to do very well in union. Agree with the above often the conversion of code takes a bit of time and people don't always give it long enough.

Personally I find it amazing that this guy has racked up so many caps. It think he is poor as an open field player, and there have been better fly halfs during his reign. He's in the team for his kicking and kicking only, which is hard for anyone else to match.