Bluey talked about it an awful lot in his post match interview. He spoke about how Warrintgon did this and they won the game as a result.

He was right. It's something I have talked about all season long with a certain player and it's something we saw yesterday with Ryan Atkins try.

I feel very sad to be proven right today.

How many collisions did TMFTMITTISL win yesterday?

Can't just single him out G we got battered all over the park mate not just down to 1 forward.

…was discussing this very point with the missus this morning and wondered if the inclusion of JP would have made the difference?

IMO they wouldn’t have been as dominant in the ruck with Jamie on the field.

Please don’t take this as some sorry ‘injury’ excuse as it is most definitely not – we lost because TS had a game plan that was executed perfectly by a determined Wire team.

Leeds was very poor at getting over the try line yesterday and not getting low enough.

Ryan bailey wanted to show he could bang mathers off instead of getting low and getting over the line, the was also two other times( can't recall which players) when the leeds players didn't get low enough to prevent being held up.

If you would have go over the line at them points then it could have a close game.

I don't know who the OP refers to as a players that never wins the collison but IMO it could be Kirke, he's huge but runs soft and gets stopped dead nearly every drive.

Is it Kirke?

It is Kirke who the OP is referring to.

The OP also possesses a blind spot with regards to what TMFTMITTISL allegedly brings to the team.

And what do you you think TMFMISL brings to leeds ?

I won't say what i think, i don't want a war

What is your opinion now on the abilities of the respective coaches involved in yesterday's final?

I will give you mine.

The best coach in the league won the challenge cup.

I also agree what you say about Kirke.

Leeds won the same amount of silverware under McClennan in half the time it took under Tony Smith.

How many collisions did TMFTMITTISL win yesterday? I'm unable to locate your response.

True, but McClennan inherited a stronger playing roster than Smith did in 2003, including a first team that had just won the Grand Final, a reserve team that were runners up in theirs, and an Academy team that had just won theirs too.

I presented a FACT and you've responded with an OPINION (and an arguable one at that).

What was the Leeds squad in 2004 which Tony Smith inherited?

Both are great coaches in different ways, but I know which coach I'd rather have and which coaches' brand of rugby I'd rather watch and it isn't the one pass and barge no plan B rygby we've seen the last 2 seasons.

Smith isn't the uber coach people make him out to be though.

Because he started with a title at leeds, and ended with a title, you forget the sh*t that went in the middle. Some awful performances.

Smith has a huge impact on a team within the first 24 months, but after that it peters out.

Leeds were awesome under smith first 24 months (bar the end of 2005). But after that things went pretty poorly, apart from some farewell performances at the end of 2007.

It'll be interesting to see how warrington will evolve under smith over the next 2 seasons. Briers, Monoghan and morley are all ''getting on''. That's 3 of warringtons best players and all will be very very hard to replace.

Others have said it....Kirke wasn't the only one. (No excuses for him though.....he also looked a right powder puff when Westwood knocked him to the ground for Mathers' disallowed try).
Bailey was another major disappointment in this area....esp again for [ihis[/i size.

Eastwood was in a different league for his hit-ups. The rest.....pants !!!

And what did you think about the performance of a player a previous poster once dubbed a turnstyle in defence yesterday?

Agreed. The way he's transformed another underperforming club is a true credit to him.

Watching Warrington's tenacious defence and wonderful off-loading reminded me of watching Leeds a few years ago. Sadly, his influence on the players in Blue and Amber is now a distant memory.

who was it who was handed off like a rag doll for ryan atkins try before halftime yesterday?

warringtons line speed was very impressive as was their overall defensive mentality.

as for smith yeah he is doing a good job but he is massively benefitting by having a chairman who is splashing mega bucks about - morley, myler, monaghan, king, atkins, solomona, anderson x2, hicks, carvell and now b hodgson for next year - not much being nurtured through the system at warrington which will prove costly.

The same thought sprung to my mind yesterday too

Diskin missed the initial tackle, that said they were both dire yesterday, although I could name a few others who went beyond dire, Sinfield, Buderus and Burrow spring to mind.

Having said that they deserve an off day though so you should do what I'm doing, take it on the chin and look forward to Hull on Friday.

[do what I'm doing, take it on the chin and look forward to Hull on Friday.'"

It surprised me not that TMFTMITTISL made a notorious turnstile look competent in defence yesterday.

The only collisions I saw yesterday were several Warrington players colliding with the Leeds try line!

...oo that was so funny I think a bit of wee has just come out. Thank God for Tennaman.