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Player: Metres - Carries (MT/Carry) - Tackles - Misses (Efficiency %) - Errors - Penalties
Leeds: 1125 - 163 (6.90) - 339 - 27 (93%) - 17 - 12
St Helens: 1294 - 214 (6.05) - 263 - 18 (94%) - 13 - 12
Smith: 64 - 10 (6.40) - 7 - 0 (100%) - 1 - 1
Hall: 88 - 10 (8.80) - 5 - 1 (83%) - 3 - 0
Delaney: 98 - 13 (7.54) - 15 - 3 (83%) - 1 - 0
Senior: 47 - 7 (6.71) - 25 - 1 (96%) - 1 - 0
Bush: 49 - 4 (12.25) - 1 - 0 (100%) - 1 - 0
McGuire: 46 - 8 (5.75) - 16 - 1 (94%) - 4 - 0
Burrow: 120 - 7 (17.14) - 16 - 3 (84%) - 0 - 0
Leuluai: 89 - 13 (6.85) - 21 - 3 (88%) - 1 - 1
Diskin: 37 - 9 (4.11) - 26 - 1 (96%) - 2 - 0
Bailey: 24 - 4 (6.00) - 9 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 1
Jones-Buchanan: 77 - 13 (5.92) - 28 - 3 (90%) - 1 - 3
Kirke: 15 - 7 (2.14) - 35 - 3 (92%) - 0 - 1
Sinfield: 81 - 14 (5.79) - 40 - 3 (93%) - 1 - 3
Buderus: 63 - 10 (6.30) - 27 - 0 (100%) - 1 - 0
Ambler: 30 - 5 (6.00) - 12 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 0
Burgess: 73 - 11 (6.64) - 26 - 4 (87%) - 0 - 1
Peacock: 124 - 18 (6.89) - 30 - 1 (97%) - 0 - 1
Try Assists:
Brett Delaney - Ryan Hall try
Danny McGuire - Brett Delaney try
Ian Kirke - Lee Smith try
Top tackler - Kevin Sinfield 40 with 3 missed, top tackler with 100% success rate - Danny Buderus with 27.
Errors and penalties as per usual were a large contributor to Leeds' downfall. Although the penalty count ended even there appeared to be a fair amount of evening up in the second half. Not shown in the stats but St Helens also forced Leeds to drop out on 3 occasions while Leeds didn't force any.
Previous Rounds:
Crusaders (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=444197
Castleford (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=444160
Wakefield (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=445241
Salford (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=446124
Harlequins (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=447962
Huddersfield (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=448906
Hull KR (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=449954
Wigan (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=450842
Bradford (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=451765
Les Catalans (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=452156
Hull (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=452863 |
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Player: Metres - Carries (MT/Carry) - Tackles - Misses (Efficiency %) - Errors - Penalties
Leeds: 1125 - 163 (6.90) - 339 - 27 (93%) - 17 - 12
St Helens: 1294 - 214 (6.05) - 263 - 18 (94%) - 13 - 12
Smith: 64 - 10 (6.40) - 7 - 0 (100%) - 1 - 1
Hall: 88 - 10 (8.80) - 5 - 1 (83%) - 3 - 0
Delaney: 98 - 13 (7.54) - 15 - 3 (83%) - 1 - 0
Senior: 47 - 7 (6.71) - 25 - 1 (96%) - 1 - 0
Bush: 49 - 4 (12.25) - 1 - 0 (100%) - 1 - 0
McGuire: 46 - 8 (5.75) - 16 - 1 (94%) - 4 - 0
Burrow: 120 - 7 (17.14) - 16 - 3 (84%) - 0 - 0
Leuluai: 89 - 13 (6.85) - 21 - 3 (88%) - 1 - 1
Diskin: 37 - 9 (4.11) - 26 - 1 (96%) - 2 - 0
Bailey: 24 - 4 (6.00) - 9 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 1
Jones-Buchanan: 77 - 13 (5.92) - 28 - 3 (90%) - 1 - 3
Kirke: 15 - 7 (2.14) - 35 - 3 (92%) - 0 - 1
Sinfield: 81 - 14 (5.79) - 40 - 3 (93%) - 1 - 3
Buderus: 63 - 10 (6.30) - 27 - 0 (100%) - 1 - 0
Ambler: 30 - 5 (6.00) - 12 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 0
Burgess: 73 - 11 (6.64) - 26 - 4 (87%) - 0 - 1
Peacock: 124 - 18 (6.89) - 30 - 1 (97%) - 0 - 1
Try Assists:
Brett Delaney - Ryan Hall try
Danny McGuire - Brett Delaney try
Ian Kirke - Lee Smith try
Top tackler - Kevin Sinfield 40 with 3 missed, top tackler with 100% success rate - Danny Buderus with 27.
Errors and penalties as per usual were a large contributor to Leeds' downfall. Although the penalty count ended even there appeared to be a fair amount of evening up in the second half. Not shown in the stats but St Helens also forced Leeds to drop out on 3 occasions while Leeds didn't force any.
Previous Rounds:
Crusaders (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=444197
Castleford (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=444160
Wakefield (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=445241
Salford (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=446124
Harlequins (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=447962
Huddersfield (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=448906
Hull KR (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=449954
Wigan (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=450842
Bradford (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=451765
Les Catalans (A) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=452156
Hull (H) - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=452863 | |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | No
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| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
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Player: Metres - Carries (MT/Carry) - Tackles - Misses (Efficiency %) - Errors - Penalties
St Helens: 1294 - 214 (6.05) - 263 - 18 (94%) - 13 - 12
Leeds: 1125 - 163 (6.90) - 339 - 27 (93%) - 17 - 12
Wellens: 46 - 13 (3.54) - 17 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 0
Gardner: 80 - 10 (8.00) - 6 - 0 (100%) - 2 - 0
Flannery: 147 - 13 (11.31) - 13 - 2 (87%) - 2 - 1
Wheeler: 29 - 6 (4.83) - 8 - 1 (89%) - 0 - 1
Foster: 29 - 4 (7.25) - 3 - 3 (50%) - 1 - 0
Moore: 63 - 9 (7.00) - 17 - 3 (85%) - 0 - 1
Eastmond: 86 - 15 (5.73) - 6 - 2 (75%) - 2 - 3
Hargreaves: 64 - 14 (4.57) - 15 - 1 (94%) - 1 - 0
Cunningham: 63 - 14 (4.50) - 26 - 2 (93%) - 0 - 0
Graham: 131 - 21 (6.24) - 25 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 0
Dixon: 56 - 13 (4.31) - 20 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 1
Clough: 115 - 19 (6.05) - 25 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 1
Puletua: 106 - 13 (8.15) - 18 - 1 (95%) - 1 - 3
Roby: 117 - 23 (5.09) - 29 - 1 (97%) - 2 - 0
Ashurst: 59 - 13 (4.54) - 16 - 1 (94%) - 1 - 0
Fa'asavalu: 17 - 4 (4.25) - 7 - 0 (100%) - 0 - 0
Fozzard: 86 - 10 (8.60) - 12 - 1 (92%) - 1 - 1
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| Quote ="tvoc"top tackler with 100% success rate - Danny Buderus with 27. '"
The dummy he took for Robys try should count as a missed tackle. |
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Interesting stats there, I thought Graham was awesome but 3 Leeds forwards, 4 including DB had him for metres per carry, and JP being one of them was also not far behind him in the metres gained but as I recall was not on the pitch no where as long as Graham.
Would love to see the minutes in play for both JP and Graham.
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And these statistics show precisely what? 100 of Burrow's 120 metres were in one carry. Flannery would have equaled Burrow's metres/carry if he hadn't tripped up on Smith's chin.
You were out-enthused and too many of youse looked to be carrying a knock (Senior and Peacock).
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Ouch Kirkey.
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| Quote ="Sam Buca"Ouch Kirkey.'"
I usually don't knock him, but they're really poor stats, no arguing with that. |
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| Quote ="Saint Rabban"And these statistics show precisely what? 100 of Burrow's 120 metres were in one carry. Flannery would have equaled Burrow's metres/carry if he hadn't tripped up on Smith's chin.
You were out-enthused and too many of youse looked to be carrying a knock (Senior and Peacock).'"
Whatever you want them to. As you well know, the stat that really matters is the scoreboard, so I'm not sure why you're so flustered about Burrow's metres per carry being more than Flannery's. |
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Re-Kirke this week: His go forward stats are poor, no question about that, defensively though only Sinfield made more tackles in the game (on either side) and let's not forget or choose to ignore the try assist for the opener.
Better from the bench but with Ablett and Lauitiiti not making it this week coach McClennan's options were reduced.
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| Quote ="GCM1980"Whatever you want them to. As you well know, the stat that really matters is the scoreboard, so I'm not sure why you're so flustered about Burrow's metres per carry being more than Flannery's.'"
He is flustered because JP stats per time on the field outshine the invincible Graham, so detracts to another arguement. Just as so many are asking for Mcguire to be binned, whilst turning a blind eye to the fact Foster carried on with the tackle and then into touch even though the ref had blown for the knock on some time earlier and some metres away from touch.
Strangly no one from the white & red v brigade seem to see or even mention this. |
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I take on board TVOCs comments about Kirke's defensive work but if Bailey had produced those stats he'd be crucified.
Big useless soft lump who concedes the collision. Why he retains a place ahead of Pitts when we're down to the bare bones is a head scratcher.
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| Quote ="G1"Why he retains a place ahead of Pitts when we're down to the bare bones is a head scratcher.'"
Including Saturday's low go forward Kirke has still averaged 5.85 meters per carry this season, Pitts has averaged 4.20
Kirke averages 23 tackles per game, Pitts just under 16 and while game-time will come into that comparison Pitts has started 3 of the 4 he's played, Kirke 6 of the 10
Obviously stats can only ever play a part of the assessment the coach will make. |
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There are no stats that help quantify Kirke's softcockery.
In fact there are no words to describe Kirk's softcockery.
So much so I have had to invent the word softcockery just to make this post.
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| Quote ="G1"There are no stats that help quantify Kirke's softcockery.
In fact there are no words to describe Kirk's softcockery.
So much so I have had to invent the word softcockery just to make this post.'"
Can't believe you are bagging that lad.
A few weeks back your comments were spot on, and shared by many.
But you are quick to chastise others for bagging players, but are continuing to do it on this lad.
I share your general view on the long term prospects of Kirke, but considering he has been head and shoulders over most other players over the last two weeks, it is a bit unfair to single him out for any critisism. Especially when you are critisizing him for a game in which he was one of the better performers. |
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My criticism of him has remained constant and has remained throughout the last two games when he has performed better but is not one of our better performers. A nice off-load against Saints and shoving Tansey whilst over the line does not deflect from his softcockery in just about every collision.
His 2 metres per carry confirm his lack of heart.
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| Quote ="G1"My criticism of him has remained constant and has remained throughout the last two games when he has performed better but is not one of our better performers. A nice off-load against Saints and shoving Tansey whilst over the line does not deflect from his softcockery in just about every collision.
His 2 metres per carry confirm his lack of heart.'"
You told me that Meters per carry meant abosolutely nothing only 3 weeks ago. You told me it was more about the game in context and the defensive element they brought also. You further said it was about game changing moments.
In the last 2 games, Kirke has covered your criteria for what was important only 3 weeks ago.  |
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I don't agree entirely with G1 on kirke, I think he has something to offer us when we are playing well as a team but G1's opinion of Kirke has remained consistent, especially in the pub after a few pints.
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| Quote ="Tony Soprano"I don't agree entirely with G1 on kirke, I think he has something to offer us when we are playing well as a team but G1's opinion of Kirke has remained consistent, especially in the pub after a few pints.'"
He has a lot to offer us, and does some donkey work. He's not the highest earner but a solid squad player who can do a decent job.
His offensive stats this week are poor, but the stats do not show a wonderful offload that everyone would have been creaming themselves on had it come from a flair player such as Ali.
His defensive stats are pretty good, so looking at it objectively, he may be asked to do a job, and that job may not be to cart the ball in |
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| Quote ="Gotcha"You told me that Meters per carry meant abosolutely nothing only 3 weeks ago. You told me it was more about the game in context and the defensive element they brought also. You further said it was about game changing moments.
In the last 2 games, Kirke has covered your criteria for what was important only 3 weeks ago.
'" I don't think I have ever had to defend an average per carry of 2 yards.
I also said tackle statistics or carry statistics do not show the damage done in any particular tackle or carry.
Kirke does no damage in any collision. The only thing Kirke damages is my cholesterol as it winds me up to see such a big lad play like such a soft cock. |
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| Quote ="G1"I also said tackle statistics or carry statistics do not show the damage done in any particular tackle or carry.'"
But try assists and try's scored are hard to argue against are they not? |
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15m in 7 carries is poor no getting away from it. How those stats are derived would be useful. Do the 5 or so yards which he ran in the build up to smith's try count or not?
Eiether way I think we need to trust McClennan on this one, I'd imagine once Ali, Eastwood & Ablett are back we may see Kirke and JJB given rests, and rotation from thereon
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Metres per carry don't tell you how many men were on someone's back or how tight the opposition defence was.
I like the new word though.
Softcockery.
Yes, rolls off the tongue nicely, that. (*)
(*) Cue Puig at this point.
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| Quote ="G1"I don't think I have ever had to defend an average per carry of 2 yards.'"
Your choice as an alternative in Jay Pitts made 0.5 meters per carry V Harlequins this season.
Not that I claim in any way to understand how some of the figures are arrived at by Opta. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"Your choice as an alternative in Jay Pitts made 0.5 meters per carry V Harlequins this season.
Not that I claim in any way to understand how some of the figures are arrived at by Opta.'"
That's because only a high Meter per carry should be seen as useful. And even then, if it involves returing drop outs or kick offs, it can be slightly miscued.
A low one taken as an average could see a mass anomoly. A player could make 8 carries, making 8 meters each time, but then get a couple of ridiculous passes from dummy half in his next 2 which might be 3 yards negative each time.
That would then go from an 8 meters per carry to a 5.8 meters just like that. Looking poor despite a more than excellent return for the first 8. |
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| Quote ="Austin 3:16"Interesting stats there, I thought Graham was awesome but 3 Leeds forwards, 4 including DB had him for metres per carry'"
He saved all his running efforts for keeping Rocky away from the sticks! |
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