Looks like we'll be well represented at England youth level great news for the club. www.therhinos.co.uk/news/10635.php

Looks like we'll be well represented at England youth level great news for the club. www.therhinos.co.uk/news/10635.php

Love that.

Well done to all the young lads anyway, hope to see more of them in the future!

Shouldn't that comment actually be "the conveyor belt of talent from amateur clubs in the Leeds Service Area"? Bit of a cheek for the club to take credit in the case of the Under 15s and Under 16s given how little input it has had to their development.

Coached a number of those lads on service area pleasing to see how they're getting on. Josh sunley was captain of my side at Milford, outstanding prospect as a full back

Spot on. And whilst not wanting to take a negative from a positive thread, I am afraid I will have to. Basically backs up what I and a few others have constantly said. The talent is there in our service area and there continually, it's what we have been doing with it since it gets to the club that appears to have been a problem.

In a number of key positions though, the pathway for young players is blocked by outstanding incumbents who are nowhere near pensionable age unfortunately.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but as a for example I can't see young Liam Hood making it at Leeds unless something dramatic happens to Diskin or McShane. Not for any lack of talent on the lad's part - I'd say he was as good if not a better player than Davey at Wakefield who has broken through into their first team recently - but simply because the road ahead is blocked in much the same way it was for Luke Gale and Danny Allan.

Agree with what you are saying, but how long as Diskin got? 2years? certainly no more than that at the same level. McShane would be hooker number 1, and following the two hooker theme, Hood would be the back up in a short time. If the club had anything about them, It should have had McShane out on loan ready for next year, and should be planning for Hood doing the same next year.

And it is that planning where the club has been getting it wrong over the last couple of years, for much the reason you have stated, resting on their laurels.

I hear McShane off to York on duel reg loan

Not good enough for me. IMO he should have been playing that level last year. He should be somewhere like Cas, Harlequins, Wakefield now, all of which I am sure would have taken him had we given a green light. Then he would have been truelly ready to step straight in next year.

Agreed, like Scott Moore last year on loan from Saints to Huddersfield & now in the 1st team squad along with Roby & Cunningham.
I think though that overall criticism of the club's succession planning is OTT when you take account of Hetherington's stated objective when he took over.
He said that he wanted to replicate the 70s when the bulk of the team was local or had come through the club's own development set-up. IMV that's exactly what he has delivered with great success.

Its come from a York fan but at this stage its still a rumour but i would be surprised seeing Mcshane dropping down to third tier when Leeds played at Hunslet he was a class above.

Scott Moore also spent all of 2008 out on loan at Castleford, so he was gaining 1st grade SL experience away from Knowsley Road for 2 full seasons.

I can't see much sense in McShane going to York.

First I've heard of it.

Me neither, like Manning at Fev, I'd rather see him at an SL club

Complete & Utter Pony.

Surely thats a criticism of the structures throughout the game below SL first team level than leeds as a club, and imo our biggest problem in bringing through top quality players.

There is a huge gap between the quality of the u20s/reserves and SL and nothing is there to bridge it. There is no level to suit a player like Mcshane and his development for the past year or so. Id say Watkins and Allen are in the same boat. They arent ready for full time SL just yet, but the level of the u20s/reserves championship one are so low as to almost harm their development.

Hopefully the dual loan system will help but there is an awful lot of players who are too good for the u20s/reserves but not yet good enough for SL who need a high quality competition to learn in

Completely agree.

Completely agree with your point. Just don't think it is relevant here.

Just because dual contracts now exist, it does not stop a player from going on loan to another super league side, rather than dual contract at lower level. McShane for example should have been at a level now that he is ready for super league, not championship. He is not going to get games in Leeds first team due to the two hookers before him, so why is he not out on loan at other super league clubs? Harlequins and Cas as two examples are crying out for players. Wakefield lost an hooker from their plans early on for the season.

Dual registration for me is for players who are not fully ready for super league just yet, and the club want them to work in a full time environment in the mean time to develop. McShane is past that level, as are one or two others, who should have been out on loan at other Super League sides. Of course subject to another club wanting to take them.

i disagree, i think its all part of the same issue

If Mcshane had a quality competition to play in, then it wouldnt be an issue. The Championship for a year wont harm his development, and when we can bring that to a higher level it will improve him as a player ready for next year when he will step up to first team player at leeds.

we arent going to be able to loan out all our youngsters to get first team experience at other SL clubs, thats just not a sustainable way of going about it. Those other clubs have their own youngsters to develop.

there needs to be a bridge between the Under 20s/reserves and SL so that players who might just not be ready or find their paths blocked for a year or two can play somewhere that tests them

But again missing the point in this particular instance. If we were talking about a Jamal Chisholm, or Liam Hood here then your point would be compeletely agreed on. But we are not.

We are talking about Paul McShane, a lad who to many was deemed ready last year, but is been held back due to the two first choice players before him. He is ready for Super League, not just for championship rugby.

He should be out on loan at a Super League club, which would be much better for his is next stage than a championship club or playing reserve rugby.

Dual registrations as I said earlier are great for the likes of Chisholm as I posted above, where the club want to give him a better challenge but still need to control his development by having them at Leeds training. McShane is past that stage.

Loaning out our players to other SL clubs isnt a sustainable way of developing them. Other clubs have their own youngsters, they have salary caps, and they really wont want to be gifting us a better player.

There has to be something separate and that can only be a dual loan system for the championship which itself needs to be of a higher level (and i think it is improving) and that applies to McShane, now. He is losing out on development time for there being nothing there

McShane at the Championship will not improve him. The Championship is a field for super league rejects, or players not deemed ready yet for super league on dual contracts.

I say again, McShane is ahead of that criteria. Your argument is fully valid with players behind McShane in their development.

I also agree that in a couple of years as the Championship improves it may then be a good outlet for this scenario. But right now, McShane should have been out there at a Super League club on loan. I say again, Harlequins and Cas are crying out for loan players, they would snap Leeds hands off to have McShane on loan.

If your argument was true incidentally, why did Wigan take Ainscough away from a duel contract to loan him to Cas? Why have Warrington done the same with Kevin Penny? It's because an opportunity to have them playing at a higher level is far more beneficial to them at this stage.

it is better for him than the U20s/reserves or not playing at all which are the only other real options right now.


Neither Quins or Cas are in desperate need of another hooker, they have Randall and Kay, and Hudson and Netherton, I dont think the Leeds management are stopping him going on loan for no reason

And whilst it would be lovely if we could enter another team in SL to act as a feeder clubs for us, it really isnt realistic. McShane would likely be better served getting a loan gig at SL level than championship level, the same as Penny and Ainscough. But it isnt a sustainable development pathway to expect half the league to compete and the other half to act as the next step of the rung for the top halfs youngsters.

Absolutely better than the reserves or not at all. But that is not the only real option, not at all.

It is the only option you are aware of, which is not the same.



Quins have deemed Kay not good enough, and loaned him out themselves. They are short of a quality hooker. Netherton is not performing for Cas (I should know I have been down to a few of their games).

McShane is also not just an hooker, but a good half back also. Don't pigeon hole him to back up your argument.



And of which nobody is suggesting. How have Saints managed to get the likes of Moore and Tyrer loaned out to Super League in the last couple of years. How have Wigan managed it with Mossop and Ainscough? Are you suggesting they are feeder clubs for them?

Look at the success we now see Wigan having with Mossop. Wasn't Moore the best hooker last year in Super League? going on to gain representative honours.

This is the sort of development path Leeds should have had in place. There will always be spaces open up at other Super League clubs for players who are ready.

I am aware of loans to SL clubs. They havent taken me by surprise. I just dont think its a realistic pathway for your youngsters to hope one of the other SL clubs has a desperate need for a player in the same position and that your player is obviously better than any youngsters they have. Its just not really an intelligent way to go about it
im not pigeon holing him, im just stating the obvious facts. Quins and Cas clearly arent desperate for him, thats why he isnt there. We cant force them to take him, train him, and play him


So the development pathway you expect leeds to have in place for our youngsters is

either hope someone gets a season long injury and a club in SL need emergency cover, like Ainscough or hope some other club needs a player and offer it to them like we have with BJB, and to you this seems sustainable?

what do we do if no-one wants to take them on loan from us? What do we do if we see something in a player other clubs dont? what do we do when all these positions are filled? what do we do when our youngster, though a quality player, isnt the best youngster in his position who is also being offered around?

has it not struck you that if the best thing for McShane and Quins was for McShane to be on loan at Quins that is where he would be?