1) Got there early today, and watched them warm up. They were awful. Dropped balls, no chat, no buzz - to be honest it looked like they couldnt be *rsed - the result didnt surprise me.

2) The penalty situation is beyond a joke - we are getting hammered by the refs, week in, week out. Simple - we have to change our game, and not give away dumb penalties

3) Our right side offence is a dead end. We need a signing.

Discuss

new centre for there and we need donald and senior samwwe side i mean come on bluey how hard is that

Ellis, Tansey, Scruton and Toopi all off the salary cap since this time last year.

Who have we replaced them with? Danny Buderus.

I know we call Webby Superman but there is no super hero that can replace them 4 players!!

they look jaded ,lethargic saints have had two or three hard seasons too but they look as good as ever.
apart from last years GF we havent looked like champions since the first half of last season

You know what I hate ?

People who finish off their post with "discuss"

Discuss that...

We definitly need a new centre on the right to inject some creativity.

2004 GF - Chev walker
2007Gf - Toopi
2008Gf - Carl Ablett

As you can see with our 3 previous GF wins we had a real bundle at right centre which was influencial in our victories.

Totally agree with you on that point. I got in early as well, was watching from the South Stand. They better be *rsed next week at Huddersfield or the way the Giants are playing at the moment they will give us a right tonking.

I can't work out if you are being sarcastic or making a serious point. If either is the case then the post fails miserably on both counts.

Me neither really:

2005 - Chev Walker
2006 - Clinton Toopi
2009 - Kallum Watkins/ Carl Ablett/ AshleyGibson / Lee Smith/ Uncle Tom Cobley

I agree with that.

From JUne onwards last year we were aweful,either losing or winning ugly and until the win away at Catalans and their late demise there was a real possibility of us finishing outside the top two.

There were deficiencies (SP) last year but were largely papered over due to our unexpected GF win which made a lot of fans believe that our squad/depth was ok and that because we'd won the GF playing Ablett at centre etc that we had no need to buy someone after the injury loss of Toopi.

Last year we were fortunate that Ellis also filled in at centre and although sometimes Ablett was named in the starting 13 at centre often in games he and Ellis would swap,so it worked to a degree in filling the loss of a specialist centre in Toopi,who whilst not our best overseas signing ever,gave the team balance,some attacking threat down his side and a lot more defensive presence.

Ellis was largely wasted in the centre but at least compared to Ablett he had more pace,a step,more strength,an offload in the tackle and an overall greater threat with ball in hand.He was also a much better defensive player.

At the moment with Donald and Smith out of the side we have no real pace in our outside backs.

WE have no threat down our right and rely on Senior having one of his good days as our only real attacking threat out wide.

At the moment when teams are muscling up with us in the forwards our only attacking threat is relying on a break through footwork of a burrow,McGuire etc as we cannot create anything out wide on the right and even if McGuire/Webb/Burrow do make a break,unlike other years there is a complete lack of support.

1) I wouldnt say they couldnt be d but from what I saw there seemed to be very little direction given to them from the captain once they got behind. Nobody seemed to get hold of them other than Peacock very late in the game.......in fact far too late in the game from what I saw.

2) I agree the indiscipline has been a worrying factor.........I wouldnt say we have been hammered by the refs as the vast majority of penalties have been correct and often due to the side being frustrated.

3) I would say not just the right side......opposition have been smart and shut down our options around centre field due to the fact we have little or no pace out wide. We are no threat out wide from outside 20 metres at this moment in time.

Just a thought from left field - As unfortunate as this might be for Ryan Hall would it be worth moving Donald back outside Senior and putting Lee Smith on the wing outside Ablett/Watkins/Gibson??

I agree the grand final papered over some cracks, but as that's the main competition, it's not really papering over anything is it?

90% yesterday went right down the middle.time and again they came back inside. this is happening every week. the game plan is all wrong. at the moment the clueless is the best one that sums us up. i disagree there is no effort. it's all effort and no skill

Keeping it simple is one thing Tad but when we dont combine that with a kicking game whats the point of running the ball in?

For the past few games only a small number of kicks have met turf, and out of them only a handfull have been decent.

i meant thet we rarely go wide any more. when we do we don't look bad. never go down the right for some reason though


everything we did played into the bulls and salfords hands. one man rugby straight down the middle

Too many pointless offloads around the middle of the park to teammates who are stood still.

Our distribution is very poor atm.

Agree with Swarcliffe Rhino we're short of imagination on the kicking front. Admittedly the tactical kicks close to the line have improved no end since a couple of seasons ago but why do we never go for the 40/20. John Wilkin showed how effective that can be in the Challenge Cup but it doesn't seem to be on our list of options. As regards Ablett he gives away too many penalties (but then again so do Diskin and Bailey) and he does not have the pace or the handling skills to be a SL centre. What about trying to sign Jamie Lyon since he seems to be touting for a move back to Super League. Would he fit in? or is he not Kiwi enough for GH?

We've kicked at least 3 this season, one at Warrington and at least 2 at home.

Except that in the end we finished only 1 point behind Saints, 8 points ahead of 3rd. Was there then, by your reckoning, a real possibility of Saints finishing outside the top 2?

I can sort of see your point, but aren't you rewriting history to fit your point a bit here?

According to Super League website (sorry tvoc, all I've got) the league table for 40-20 kicks is:

1 Leeds 4
2 Salford 3
3 Harlequins 3
4 Catalans 2
5 Hull 2
6 Wigan 1
7 Bradford 1
8 Huddersfield 0
9 Celtic Crusaders 0
10 Hull Kingston Rovers 0
11 Wakefield 0
12 Castleford 0
13 Warrington 0
14 St Helens 0


So clearly we do go for 40-20s, nad get them more often than anyone else in the league, apparently.