I'm really concerned about the flat unstructured rugby that is creeping into our game again.

Is this team, pack in particularly, solely reliant upon effort over structure? Will we just get burnt out year after year?

Its one loss. No big worry, but the horrible no structure, one out along the line basic play was still there. That should be abolished. McD should be ripping into them. If that doesn't go then we will win sod all and will be burnt out from too much effort over structure, just as last season.

Last please Kev & McGuire, kick at first receiver and stop f'in about chancing the arm. You've been sussed out. Its what has won you all those rings, dont abandon it now.

Your memory doesn't stretch back that far then does it? Some of the humpings we've had in regular season games against the likes of Hudds, Saints and Wigan in the last few years have been far, far worse than Friday.

We had an off day. We got beaten. It's been exception rather than rule this year, so let's not panic.

The point is though. In all three defeats this year, the defensive tactics of the opposition have being exactly the same.

All three teams, have still made their mistakes, all three have still made missed tackles also, yet in all three games we have struggled to get an attacking game together.

I would say that is more the worry. Can we overcome those defensive tactics in our game plan?

Like I said in my post lets not panic just yet but I did think we were exceptionally bad on friday

Attack (or lack of it) was the main worry, We haven't scored less points in a game for 15 years I think the sky team mentioned and for mine the kylie try was more down to luck than anything else. Warrington defended well in credit to them but nothing that I would expect to keep us out with such ease.

Defence was also a shambles and wire should have put 50 on us imo

We should beat Leigh comfortably but I cant see past a Hudds win next thursday as things stand.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

It was bad Friday, but even in a mis-tackle frenzie we somehow managed to sidestep being blown-out of the water on scoreboard.

that's probably the only pleasing aspect, apart from Abletts contribution.

just mark it down as one of them games unless it continues.
Quiet a few players getting stick but our maquee signing seems exempt, personally not seen anything from Tom to make him any better then BJB and much slower to boot. TB timing is well out over running the ball carrier on many occasions, yet to see him make a telling break from a field kick he to drops the ball something Ben was pulled over the coals for and for me Toms defence not that much better. Hey oh though what do I no

Thought we have looked poor for the last few games tbh.
Not sure if it is a blip or that we have an eye on the CC as Brisbane has said or that other teams have found us out.
We certainly are lacking pace at HB and both Mcguire and Sinfield are falling off tackles at ease.
We have a number of forwards who are not playing with any bite or venom and that might be down to knowing they wont be with us next year or simply down to not being good enough.
The youngsters such as Mulhern, Minchella, and England must be wandering what they have to do to get into a side that plays like we have the past few weeks.
For me Clarkson, Kirke, Bailey and possibly JJB need to improve quickly or be shipped out.
I would also add Sinfield to that list as just being a captain wont bring it`s rewards every year.
McGuire whilst his brain tells him what he should be doing. His legs and more importantly his heart is telling him something else.
Either give Sutcliffe an opprtunity long term or buy in someone who can run the show.

As fans of a club famed for 'peaking at the right time' I'm amazed that so many of us are seriously worried by a mid-season form slump. Look around you. Saints slumped a few weeks ago and are now recovering, Wigan also lost last week after looking unstoppable, and Warrington and Huddersfield are only now getting into their strides.

There have been far worse performances than Friday's in recent memory - how about Catalans away in 2011 (just before our season turned around)...

As for individuals, Hardaker has been roundly praised along with Ablett (who we may lose for a few games I fear for his boot connecting with Joel Monaghan's head).

Peacock and Leuluai grafted but weren't as effective as usual in the forwards. Kirke, Clarkson, Singleton and S. Ward needed to step up but didn't (then again, not sure I've seen Clarkson have a noticeably good game since Brian McClennan was in charge, at least the others are capable of it). I didn't realise Achurch was injured - he did seem to have a dig early on. Delaney - and dare I say it, JJB & Bailey, were missed for their defensive work rate.

R. Ward looked okay but looked like struggling to match it physically with the Wire pack. I felt we badly needed a proper hooker - both for a bit more zip in the middle of the field, but also someone to improve our defence in the middle and around the ruck. With Sinfield there our kicking game completely went to pot.

As for the other backs, Hall put his hand up but was in heavy traffic most of the time. Watkins was starved of ball. Briscoe looks a bit of a stranger at the moment - not sure if this is because he's lacked consistent game time or is simply going through a bit of a drop in confidence. Moon was pretty erratic.

Sutcliffe looked like one of the few dangerous Leeds players later on, although his defence wasn't great. I was surprised by how uninvolved McGuire seemed - the first truly off-game I have seen from him this season.

I didn't see the game on Friday so cannot comment on individual performances in the wire game but threads like this have been commonplace in recent years.
No player can go on forever but writing them off has proved foolish in the past and several people could have egg on their face again.
All teams have peaks and troughs in the season but the ones that peak when it matters are the top sides. We have proved time and again we are capable of doing that.

Except for the most recent time, last season, which in reality is what we should be judging on now, as to go back to 2012 would be two years.

I think we saw the best of Tony Smith. Hardaker has said it in an interview that when he got the ball deep, the defence were on him. It just seemed like they had us worked out and were ready for everything we threw at them.

Whilst it's not time to overreact, McD does need to sit down and learn the lessons from our defeats because they have come in similar fashion. It seems like we have a gameplan and that's it. If it doesn't work we struggle.

Not enough speed in the halves which means we're easy to read. It's not a problem if we get quick ball to the backs and the forwards are on a roll, but Friday showed we aren't going to dominate the big boys.

I didn't care about the loss if it helps make us more complete for the end of the season.

As a side note, thought we looked stronger in defence until R Ward went off, even though he was blowing. Would also start Singleton with Kylie off the bench.

Just before the Leuluai try I think they referenced the last time Leeds were nilled which was 27th September 1998 at Halifax.

For anyone interested these are the last time Leeds scored the following -

0 - 27th September 1998
1 - 16th October 1984
2 - 12th July 2007
3 - 18th January 1981
4 - 6th April 2012
5 - 30th September 1987
6 - 30th May 2014 (and on five other occasions under Brian McDermott)

Which game was this? Am vaguely remembering Widnes in a cup replay under lights?

Seem to remember in 2013 we weren't allowed to go back to 2012 to judge.
And in 2012 we weren't allowed to go back to 2011 to judge.

Of course when it's a trophyless season we can go back and use it

The game from September '87 was a 16 - 5 Yorkshire Cup Semi-Final defeat at Odsal.

The game you are recalling was the Challenge Cup Quarter-Final Replay at Headingley March '86 (David Creasser scoring all the game's points in a terrific try-less encounter), game four of the unforgettable sequence V Widnes over a eighteen day period.

That's the one. Thanks!

Use your head Printer, your obviously not as silly as that, and no need to be on the defensive all the time. It was another view to the point raised.

The point raised was coming good at end of season, and we have "proven", time and time again. We didn't last season,which is the most recent time with this team, so what is to say different this time.

This works both ways by the way in looking back.

For only the 2nd time in 7 years but I'm sure you're fully aware of what's different this year to last and why last year was different to the previous year, regarding injuries (touch wood!!).

Exactly, we could use 2010 and say as that was the most recent example then concerns about whether we'd succeed in 2011 playoffs, and we all know how that ended. Likewise for Wigan last year, that they didn't get the job done in 2012 didn't stop them in 2013.

As I see it, nothing I've seen this year has me doubting that we can't win the GF. That's not to say we will as it's so close between some of the teams at the top that injuries could swing things, and I don't believe we have yet to see anybody ruled out for the season for any club (maybe Thornley at Wigan???). Also of course who hits a purple patch in form come September and NOBODY on here knows which teams will and won't despite some claiming we'll be knackered by Playoff time.

Some people love to take Leeds' worst showing and say this is why we won't win anything this year whilst holding it up against some of the best performances from our rivals.

It can easily be spun and we can use the wins Leeds had against the likes of Wigan, Saints and Wire this year to say we can. We can look at what Saints played like at Magic vs Wire, or what Wire played like vs Saints round 1, or the Wigan side beaten well by Hudds twice and were unable to get the job done at Cas like Leeds and Saints managed to do and say theses games perhaps show they won't win the GF.

A discussion on whether Leeds can win the GF or not, and whether Friday was a poor performance, are totally different to what was said above.

On recent experience we do not know that we will come good when it matters, which is what was said.

However, is this team capable of winning the GF, is a yes. But totally different to the other point.

You get so defensive that at times I'm not sure even you know what point you are arguing.

That was some game, and some sequence.

In my recolection wasn't Creasser penalised in the original cup encounter at Widnes for throwing a Widnes players boot away? I seem to remember the penalty was kicked. And we complain about random refereeing these days.

Goes back to The Magic Rat's post about how we've peaked more than any other team at the business end of the year, it was then attempted to be dismissed by saying no look at 2013.

That's not what he said at all. Had he said that, it is quite clear as we have more wins than anyone else, therefore peaked more than anyone else.

What he said was, we had nothing to worry about this year, as we had proven time and time again that we can peak at the end of the season. I just simply offered the view that, except for recent times, i.e. last year.

If you then want to get into a discussion about it, that is still different to the point raised. However, we didn't succeed last year due to tired, busted bodies, on important players. Those same players are a year older still, or two years older since it last worked.

Therefore it wouldn't be right to rest your argument on what has happened previously. Far better to rest it on what are these players capable of.

I never said we had nothing to worry about. Feel free to show me the quote.
I said posters writing the side off COULD end up with egg on their face as the team have proved in previous seasons we have been able to perform when it has counted.
We didn't last season, but as pointed out this we failed to win in 2010 and 06 but came back the following season to win the competition.

It was Cliff Lyons that threw the boot (belonging to Tony Myler) away, it was reported by the touch judge to referee Gerry Kershaw who gave the penalty for 'ungentlemanly conduct.' Leeds queried the ruling after the match with Joe Manly (referee assessor at the game) who stated a letter had been sent to all clubs just a couple of weeks earlier regarding such issues. Leeds claimed to have seen no sight of said communication.

As a postscript to the excellent last minute angled penalty equaliser from the boot of Creasser - who had earlier missed with all five of his attempts - Leeds almost kicked the ball to touch believing they were still four points in arrears before frantic messages got through from the bench via the players across the width of the pitch.