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| For me neither will merge nor should they. For me would prefer to see crusaders out rather than wakey or cas
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"Thanks tvoc, that is useful.
For those asking why I wanted these figures in particular is was to show what I think are important trends and information. It was not about direct comparison between the sides.'" Seems strange then that you first requested these figures, Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"
Good one, so now please show the average crowds for Warrington, Salford, Castleford and Quins/London, just to name a few, in the same years? Go on, I dare you... sorry, that would make your argument look total rubbish wouldn't it!'"
in response to, and as an attempt to, argue against a direct comparison.
Does any of this argue against the fact that Crusaders at this point in their life are ahead of where Wakefield were at the same point in their SL life?
Quote Lets start with Warrington figures. The reason I wanted to show them is to show the where they have come from and also the impact modern facilities has on attendances. Warrington final year at Wilderspool and first season at the Halliwell Jones show just how much impact new stadium have on attendances with an uplift in Average crowd of just short of 3k! Of course, the people with longer memories will know that Warrington first season at their new home was not great and they finished in 8th, while Wakefield had their best season in SL since being admitted in 1999 and finished in 6th! Also in 2004 Wakefield started on an upward trend in crowd numbers and the figures show Wakefield are not a club in decline as people would have you believe, they are a club on the up. Warrington managed to hang on to their good crowd numbers and while they jumped to 4th in 2005 but then hung around mid table and and did not better 6th and of course in 2009 were 10th, while Wakefield were 5th!'" Wakefield got in last time on the basis of a stadium yet to be built, they were told at the time they were taking a big risk with their lack of contingency planning. They have failed to provide, or move very far forward in providing new facilities. Why should we give them the benefit of the doubt again? and what happens if in 3 years time Newmarket still isnt built? Are you arguing Wakefield should be kept in SL indefinately on ?he basis there is a chance they could get a new stadium and there is a chance this could see a crowd uplift which would bring them to about 8/9k?
Quote So, Stadiums are important and look to be good for a rise of 2k to 3k almost irrespective of the on-field success. I think that both Wakefield and Cas will, if they are allowed to still be around in SL, put this sort of figure on their crowds. I would argue that Cas's figures also show that they probably will not be able to grow their crowds quite as much as Wakefield from just a stadium alone because they enjoy such good current support in a smaller town with a smaller demographic. However, I would expect both Cas and Wakey to be posting average crowds of 9k + irrespective of their on-field performances and 10k plus if they do well on the field. These are clubs on the up and are also in THE hot-bed amateur RL district in Yorkshire, the Wakefield District.'" You think there is nearly 10k people in the Wakefield district sat around waiting for both Cas and Wakefield to get new stadiums and they will just turn up?
Quote
I wanted Salford's numbers to show that they have not really progressed as much as Wakefield or Castleford in terms of attracting to people to watch the game live, in fact they have been fairly static. Now, Salford should stay because they are moving into a new stadium and I would say that they would also add 2k to 3k to their crowd numbers, but that leaves them still potentially 1k to 2k behind both Wakey and Cas if this formula transposes. I would say that Salford will need more success on the field to be in a position to start to overtake Wakey or Cas because they have a rather successful football team just down the road, BUT if they start to do well I think the potential to pull in 12 to 13k crowds because it is such a populous area are there for Salford.'" But Salford are actually building a stadium. Castleford and Wakefield are just hoping to. Your comparison here forgets that.
Quote Now, it would appear that I want rid of Crusaders and that is not strictly true. I am happy with them staying if the RFL really want them to, although I do have doubts over their financial future for lots of reason and feel that they will struggle to survive the next three years. I however I am totally against the RFL removing Cas, Wakefield or Salford at the expense of Crusaders, because the idea of franchising is to improve the game as whole, both on and off the field. In the much longer term will Wakefield or Cas be able to keep a SL place if we are able to launch successful big city clubs in the North East, South Wales, West Midlands etc... I don't know, but if they are playing in front of good crowds in good stadium then that is for the good of the whole game as well, because this will always be the heart-land of RL in my life time I bet!'" Crusaders can improve the game as a whole, thats what they have shown. They have the potential to grow, like Wakefield have, and if they do they will be ahead of Wakefield, (because as we have shown, they are starting from a higher point attendance wise) If we apply the same logic you have applied to Crusaders then nobody, will ever be replaced in SL. However much the game takes off in the North East, South Wales, West Midlands etc, a new club arent going to be ahead of an old club within three years of being in SL. It is just never going to happen. Thats why franchising was brought in, and it is why it is nonsensical to do what you have tried to do and compare an expansion club in its 3rd year of SL 7th year of existance to a club 100+ years old and in its 12th year of SL.
Quote Before Smokey comes out with the line, they have had their chance to build a new ground, blah, blah... I don't think they have! The only clubs that has not received substantial local authority financial assistance in building or improving their facilities are Leeds, Wakefield, Castleford and Bradford. Leeds of course are fortunate that they been under very good management and are pretty much the only club to be in this position to do things on their own, but even so Gary has to put the club in £10m of debt (even more than St Helens £8 debt) to do this now and has a £2m bomb in his pocket that potentially may go off at any time.'" It is Wakefield's problem that they arent as well run as Leeds. It is nobody else's fault they havent been able to receive third party financial assistance. They have known this day was coming for a long long long time, if by now they havent made themselves integral to SL they have nobody else to blame. Certainly not the people doing good work in Wales.
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Gee Wizz. You can't argue on one hand that one clubs crowds will grow with a new stadium, and then not take that into account with the other club.'"
Errr, Gotcha, once again a failure to read the actual post!!! I argue that both teams will grow their followings by 2k to 3k but do say I think Cas would possibly grow their slightly less...
Quote So, Stadiums are important and look to be good for a rise of 2k to 3k almost irrespective of the on-field success. I think that both Wakefield and Cas will, if they are allowed to still be around in SL, put this sort of figure on their crowds. I would argue that Cas's figures also show that they probably will not be able to grow their crowds quite as much as Wakefield from just a stadium alone because they enjoy such good current support in a smaller town with a smaller demographic. However, I would expect both Cas and Wakey to be posting average crowds of 9k + irrespective of their on-field performances and 10k plus if they do well on the field. These are clubs on the up and are also in THE hot-bed amateur RL district in Yorkshire, the Wakefield District.'"
That is very clear mate, stopping making things up and putting words into other peoples' mouths... read posts properly!
Quote ="Gotcha"Cas have always brought more to the game than Wakefield, despite any history's.'"
You put words in my mouth and then present YOUR opinion as being a statement of fact. You then realise that this statement is total rubbish, and history would indeed show otherwise, so you decide to ignore history! Good argument! So what you mean, is that you personally just like Cas better than Wakey... just because! You accuse me of being biased and come out with a statement like that... classic!
Quote ="Gotcha"Both shouldn't stay up. Both should merge and stop the argument alltogether and get a first class club based from Glasshoughton. A stadium plan that is already approved.
But with that not happening Cas are quite clearly the best option for Super League to go with.'"
Then the cherry on top, they should merge... that is right, lets make two clubs who currently get a combined home crowd of 14k into one club getting a combined crowd of 8k... what a great idea! Even if one of them did go down they will still have a bigger combined crowd than a single merged SL club... both sets of fans know this and agree on this one!
Finally a fact! Yes, Castleford having planning permission for a stadium at Glasshoughton. However, the vital bit you miss is that they don't currently have the funds! They now have to get another planning permission (which has not even been lodged yet) for a supermarket on Wheldon Road before they can realise the funds to start building. While I think that will happen, the time frame is once again totally open and they could actually find themselves starting to build a new stadium after Wakefield! Other than this, good point!
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"Then the cherry on top, they should merge... that is right, lets make two clubs who currently get a combined home crowd of 14k into one club getting a combined crowd of 8k... what a great idea! Even if one of them did go down they will still have a bigger combined crowd than a single merged SL club... both sets of fans know this and agree on this one!'"
That's not a cherry topper, that's something I have always stated, and always stated you are talking poop on to say the crowds would reduce if it happened. Best thing for super league is a merged club, and that is what my opinion is, rather than what the opinions of the two sets of supporters are.
Yet in the rest of the post you accuse me of Cas bias. . But at least I am not motivated by my own benefit should Wakey's ground get built.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Seems strange then that you first requested these figures, in response to, and as an attempt to, argue against a direct comparison.
Does any of this argue against the fact that Crusaders at this point in their life are ahead of where Wakefield were at the same point in their SL life?
Wakefield got in last time on the basis of a stadium yet to be built, they were told at the time they were taking a big risk with their lack of contingency planning. They have failed to provide, or move very far forward in providing new facilities. Why should we give them the benefit of the doubt again? and what happens if in 3 years time Newmarket still isnt built? Are you arguing Wakefield should be kept in SL indefinately on ?he basis there is a chance they could get a new stadium and there is a chance this could see a crowd uplift which would bring them to about 8/9k?
You think there is nearly 10k people in the Wakefield district sat around waiting for both Cas and Wakefield to get new stadiums and they will just turn up?
But Salford are actually building a stadium. Castleford and Wakefield are just hoping to. Your comparison here forgets that.
Crusaders can improve the game as a whole, thats what they have shown. They have the potential to grow, like Wakefield have, and if they do they will be ahead of Wakefield, (because as we have shown, they are starting from a higher point attendance wise) If we apply the same logic you have applied to Crusaders then nobody, will ever be replaced in SL. However much the game takes off in the North East, South Wales, West Midlands etc, a new club arent going to be ahead of an old club within three years of being in SL. It is just never going to happen. Thats why franchising was brought in, and it is why it is nonsensical to do what you have tried to do and compare an expansion club in its 3rd year of SL 7th year of existance to a club 100+ years old and in its 12th year of SL.
It is Wakefield's problem that they arent as well run as Leeds. It is nobody else's fault they havent been able to receive third party financial assistance. They have known this day was coming for a long long long time, if by now they havent made themselves integral to SL they have nobody else to blame. Certainly not the people doing good work in Wales.'"
Good god, you go round and round in the same circle.
You argue that Wakefield should be booted out of SL and Crusaders should stay. I argue that Wakefield, Castleford and Crusaders should ALL stay in SL BUT if the RFL do insist on kicking someone out, then I think it should be Crusaders over Wakefield. You clear on that, you seem to think my first choice it to kick Crusaders out, it isn't! Yes, I have major doubts about there sustainability long term in a town that was a compromise and run by two people who have previously run this club into administration and are close to doing to same to a football club and, that is why if I really had to make a choice to loose a club, I would cut my loses and focus back on South Wales. It might be easier if the RFL weren't owed £700, which I think is clouding their judgement!
As for your paragraph on Wakefield, all I will say is please also read Castleford and Glasshoughton! It works as well with both.
As for people sat around waiting to watch Wakefield and Castleford in new stadiums, then err, yes! They were clearly sat around in Hull and Warrington and I used Warrington as the example rather than Hull, because it has a significantly smaller population that Wakefield. So, Warrington District has 198k and Wakefield District (which includes Cas obviously) has 324k. The town of Warrington and the City of Wakefield have similar populations at around 80k and Wakefield traditional catchment is much bigger as it includes one of the five town, in Ossett. I would estimate that Wakefield Trinity's catchment area would be up towards 150k when you take out the areas traditionally support Cas and Featherstone.
As for your final point, we are honoured to support the best run club in SL... so no club is run as well as our IMO... not sure what your point is! As for intergral to SL, other than growing crowds, having a better SL record than Cas or Salford... then what else do should they have done?
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| Quote ="Gotcha"That's not a cherry topper, that's something I have always stated, and always stated you are talking poop on to say the crowds would reduce if it happened. Best thing for super league is a merged club, and that is what my opinion is, rather than what the opinions of the two sets of supporters are.'"
You have indeed always stated this and I have indeed argued otherwise but you must admit... you are outnumbered!
Quote ="Gotcha"Yet in the rest of the post you accuse me of Cas bias.
. But at least I am not motivated by my own benefit should Wakey's ground get built.'"
As for this, well first, you should stop reading Cas Forum... it really is not good for you! Secondly, I am sure if I ask you to retract that statement you will do so... otherwise we will really fall out... libel is not big or clever!
PS. I didn't strictly accuse you of having a Cas bias but actually intimated you might have an anti-Wakefield bias.. there is a difference!
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"PS. I didn't strictly accuse you of having a Cas bias but actually intimated you might have an anti-Wakefield bias.. there is a difference!'"
I go watch Cas several times a season, and have Cas mates. Loved it when they were relegated due to me having one over those mates. Do I enjoy going to watch Cas though? yes. But I still think a merged club is best, so hardly a bias to one.
I used to work for Wakefield, and was on the scouting team that brought in the likes of Ellis and Feather, until I gave up that role. So do I have an anti Wakefield bias? No.
But I do think Wakefield have had too many chances to get themselves in order. I don't think the club will =#FF0000ever be supported anymore from the city regardless of new stadiums. It never has been well supported and never will be.
I do have a bias though in progressing the way the RFL are, and that is to reach out to expansion areas rather than restrict the game to teams that are never going to take the game forward.
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| Quote ="Gotcha"I go watch Cas several times a season, and have Cas mates. Loved it when they were relegated due to me having one over those mates. Do I enjoy going to watch Cas though? yes. But I still think a merged club is best, so hardly a bias to one.
I used to work for Wakefield, and was on the scouting team that brought in the likes of Ellis and Feather, until I gave up that role. So do I have an anti Wakefield bias? No.
But I do think Wakefield have had too many chances to get themselves in order. I don't think the club will =#FF0000ever be supported anymore from the city regardless of new stadiums. It never has been well supported and never will be.
I do have a bias though in progressing the way the RFL are, and that is to reach out to expansion areas rather than restrict the game to teams that are never going to take the game forward.'"
Firstly, no retraction... I was serious?
Why have Wakefield had any more chances than Cas, in fact given that Cas have been relegated from SL not once but twice, I think they have had more chances to be honest. It has never been well supported... I refer once again to the real facts of history! Also, you just have a hunch about crowds not growing, but I have given made an evidence based supposition to back up my argument, once again facts rather than opinion.
So finally, are you saying that Wakefield and Cas should both go and make way for another expansion club, if that was indeed an option?. Also, should Salford stop building??? You'd better go and tell them!
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"So finally, are you saying that Wakefield and Cas should both go and make way for another expansion club, if that was indeed an option?. Also, should Salford stop building??? You'd better go and tell them!'"
No I am saying that there should be a club in that area, but one club only, as the catchment area is not big enough to grow to the levels required for more than one club (and by catchment I mean actually possibilites of watching rather than census numbers). Hence why I said a merged club. But I have said, that not been accepted, that Cas are the better club for Super League than Wakefield would be, due to what they bring to the game, which is more than Wakefield.
Just to clarify your bias issues here. I also think the same for Halifax and Huddersfield, and also to create a franchise for a south yorkshire side. You see my opinion is more consistent with what I hope the RFL are trying to achieve.
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Just to clarify your bias issues here. I also think the same for Halifax and Huddersfield, and also to create a franchise for a south yorkshire side. You see my opinion is more consistent with what I hope the RFL are trying to achieve.'"
You are Mo Lindsay and I claim my £5.
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| Get rid of the Welsh folly IMO - a dead-end venture from the offset, like trying to grow an orange tree in an apple orchard.
Club accounts must sigh with despair when they see the Crusaders on the fixture list knowing full well that there'll be fekk-all in 'away' ticket sales.
Why do Crusaders do it? - Fekk knowns!
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| Quote ="Fat Boy"Get rid of the Welsh folly IMO - a dead-end venture from the offset, like trying to grow an orange tree in an apple orchard.
Club accounts must sigh with despair when they see the Crusaders on the fixture list knowing full well that there'll be fekk-all in 'away' ticket sales.
Why do Crusaders do it? - Fekk knowns!'"
I take it you have changed your view on who should be in and who should be out from the last time we posted..?
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| Quote ="supercat"I take it you have changed your view on who should be in and who should be out from the last time we posted..?'"
Nope – the Welsh folly was a pointless exercise from the offing and never should have been granted a franchise in the first place.
Wakefield, on the other hand, have had more than enough time to get themselves in a reasonable shape to be worthy of a franchise but have squandered that opportunity and as such their franchised should be given to another team so they can ‘give it a go’.
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| Quote ="G1"Isn't Rhys Evans at Warrington a Crusaders Academy product?
I'd like to think that just for once RL can think a bit more long term. I'd like to see how many Welsh players we have in SL after they've been in the top flight for 9 seasons (3 times around the Franchise). That would be a good time to judge, IMO.
I am sorry, IA, but I am not too sympathetic with Wakey who have had hundreds of years and only scraped through the last round of licence applications on an unfulfilled promise of a new stadium. Weren't they given the Scarborough warning a while back?'"
Rhys Evans and his twin brother Ben left Bridgend South Wales to join the Warrington set up in 2007 the year before Crusaders got their first license, they have never been through any academy set up at Crusaders. They played union in Wales and never had any connection with Crusaders before they got their licence
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| Ticket sales and attendances are nothing like as important to club finances as some would like to believe.
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"Good god, you go round and round in the same circle.
You argue that Wakefield should be booted out of SL and Crusaders should stay. I argue that Wakefield, Castleford and Crusaders should ALL stay in SL BUT if the RFL do insist on kicking someone out, then I think it should be Crusaders over Wakefield. You clear on that, you seem to think my first choice it to kick Crusaders out, it isn't! Yes, I have major doubts about there sustainability long term in a town that was a compromise and run by two people who have previously run this club into administration and are close to doing to same to a football club and, that is why if I really had to make a choice to loose a club, I would cut my loses and focus back on South Wales. It might be easier if the RFL weren't owed £700, which I think is clouding their judgement!'" And i have actually put forward an argument why this is nonsense. You just ignore it because you cant address it and restate your nonsensical position.
Quote As for your paragraph on Wakefield, all I will say is please also read Castleford and Glasshoughton! It works as well with both.'" It does, I dont know why you think I think Castleford should get in ahead of Wakefield because of the stadium issue? I dont, They shouldnt. They should get in because they didnt go bust at the start of the year, have done what was asked of them in relation to cutting down overseas players and blooding quality young british players, and are better attended.
Quote As for people sat around waiting to watch Wakefield and Castleford in new stadiums, then err, yes! They were clearly sat around in Hull and Warrington and I used Warrington as the example rather than Hull, because it has a significantly smaller population that Wakefield. So, Warrington District has 198k and Wakefield District (which includes Cas obviously) has 324k. The town of Warrington and the City of Wakefield have similar populations at around 80k and Wakefield traditional catchment is much bigger as it includes one of the five town, in Ossett. I would estimate that Wakefield Trinity's catchment area would be up towards 150k when you take out the areas traditionally support Cas and Featherstone.'" Then you are wrong, both Warrington and Hull invested massively in the squad, and marketing. People didnt just rock up because it was built, this wasnt Waynes World two with a naked indian guy telling Simon Moran to build it and they will come.
Quote As for your final point, we are honoured to support the best run club in SL... so no club is run as well as our IMO... not sure what your point is! As for intergral to SL, other than growing crowds, having a better SL record than Cas or Salford... then what else do should they have done?'" Not relied on overseas players, go the facilities sorted, got even better attendances, had some actual success in SL. Many clubs are well run not just ours, and many clubs have made themselves integral to SL. It would be unthinkable to drop Saints, Wire, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford, Hull FC, Les Catalans, or Hudds. The fact Wakefield arent one of those clubs is solely down to Wakefield.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"People didnt just rock up because it was built, this wasnt Waynes World two with a naked indian guy telling Simon Moran to build it and they will come.'"
PMSL.
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Ticket sales and attendances are nothing like as important to club finances as some would like to believe.'"
Yep, it would be interesting to see what proportion of Leeds income (around £12m IIRC) is down to ticket sales & season tickets.
Come on MjM lad, do your stuff!
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Ticket sales and attendances are nothing like as important to club finances as some would like to believe.'"
I think you are incorrect there mate, I think for the majority of SL Clubs attendances and season tickets sales are either there biggest income or, for less well supported clubs, the second biggest income stream after the Sky money. Leeds season ticket income will be there biggest income stream at £2m + per annum (based on 10,000 season tickets holders) and every extra thousand supporters per match brings them £20k per home fixture, so that might bring another £1m + over the season. Because those are quick calcs based on the minimum prices, I think that the Leeds crowd is worth between £3m to £4m per annum to the club. Now compare that to Bradford, who only got less than a third of Leeds income for selling the same number of season tickets! I think Bradford will be lucky to clear £1.5m in annual income from attendances this year. I also know how much it cost to be a main jersey sponsor of a bottom half SL club 5 years ago and it was about £150k, now I think with the current climate that £150k to maybe £250k would sound right to me. I think most clubs, with the exception of Crusaders and Quins, will rake in at least £500k in overall annual sponsorship with clubs like Leeds heading up to maybe £1m.
The RFL target number on attendances in SL of 10,000 is based not only it being a realistic target but one that should allow clubs to be self-sustainable (along with average sponsorship) while also still being able to spend the full amount of the cap. James Elston told me that an average crowd of 10,000 for Wakey would allow them to spend the full-cap amount and with sponsorship income, they would break even. As such, for every 1000 supporters less than 10,000 they have to cut the total wage bill by £250k per annum!
So for clubs like Quins and Crusaders, who also struggle with sponsorship income more than the heart-land clubs, they have a huge hole to fill.
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| Quote ="Him"Yep, it would be interesting to see what proportion of Leeds income (around £12m IIRC) is down to ticket sales & season tickets.
Come on MjM lad, do your stuff!
'"
I think Leeds last accounts showed a turnover of £10m but didn't that included the purchase option of the Cricket ground by YCC? I think probably 50% + of Leeds income will come from attendances.
I don't have the accounts and even then it might not be clear within the statutory accounts what is what but MjM and G1 might know more?
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| Quote ="Gotcha"icon_lol.gif
PMSL.'"
PMSL too, how wrong could Smokey be eh!
Sorry, Gotcha, you were laughing at Smokey were you not... knowing that Simon Moran didn't build anything and only bought the club half way through their first season at the Helliwell Jones because in part, in his own words, they had seen significant increases in their average attendances!
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"icon_lol.gif
PMSL too, how wrong could Smokey be eh!
Sorry, Gotcha, you were laughing at Smokey were you not... knowing that Simon Moran didn't build anything and only bought the club half way through their first season at the Helliwell Jones because in part, in his own words, they had seen significant increases in their average attendances!'"
You would have also noted it wasnt a naked Indian (or weird naked Indian guy as the film puts it) but the spirit Jim Morrison of the doors who tells Wayne to put on Waynestock and as such to build it and they will come.
But why would we focus on these unnecessary superfluous details unless we were trying to avoid addressing the actual point eh?
Are you sure it was Simon Moran who said that in his own words? Are you sure you have simply rephrased a paragraph from Wikipedia which said "Warrington's first season in the Halliwell Jones Stadium saw slight underachievement on the pitch reflected in their finishing position of eighth in Super League, though they did make the semi finals of the Challenge Cup. However, they recorded a significant increase in their average attendances and midway through the season the club was purchased by events promoter Simon Moran"
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"You would have also noted it wasnt a naked Indian (or weird naked Indian guy as the film puts it) but the spirit Jim Morrison of the doors who tells Wayne to put on Waynestock and as such to build it and they will come.
But why would we focus on these unnecessary superfluous details unless we were trying to avoid addressing the actual point eh?
Are you sure it was Simon Moran who said that in his own words? Are you sure you have simply rephrased a paragraph from Wikipedia which said "Warrington's first season in the Halliwell Jones Stadium saw slight underachievement on the pitch reflected in their finishing position of eighth in Super League, though they did make the semi finals of the Challenge Cup. However, they recorded a significant increase in their average attendances and midway through the season the club was purchased by events promoter Simon Moran"'"
No, didn't know about the Wiki entry, but it seems to back up my recollection that it was widely reported at the time and I seem to remember I read it in one of the RL rags and that it was taken from an interview that he did for the Warrington local rag in 2004?
Any Warrington fans help me with this?
The point is it wasn't a superfluous detail was it, even if my relocation about Simon Moran buying the club in part because of the increased crowds, the fact is he didn't buy his controlling stake in Warrington until June 2004, they had a poor season finishing in 8th (incidentally, two places below another team whose name begins with W!) and the fact is they had already seen huge increases in their crowd numbers! Yes, I know they got the CC semi... before you tell me!
Now, your point about investing in the squad and marketing are all true and that has stopped the people that turned up buggering off again but Wakefield under AG, while not investing heavily in the squad yet (why would he... he, like Simon Moran, is a very successful business man and therefore not stupid!) he has publicly said he has the funds to inject into Wakefield to spend up to the full cap amount. As for marketing then this is where he and Simon Moran have loads of experience and things in common, they are great marketeers. Promotions, newspaper ads, radio ads and of course two TV ads at peak viewing time! They have an current season average of 6800 ish in SL and haven't had to resort to giving bucket-loads of tickets away.
The more I think about, the similarity's between Warrington 2004 and Wakefield 2011 are uncanny, albeit AG paid less money for his shares!
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"No, didn't know about the Wiki entry, but it seems to back up my recollection that it was widely reported at the time and I seem to remember I read it in one of the RL rags and that it was taken from an interview that he did for the Warrington local rag in 2004?
Any Warrington fans help me with this?
The point is it wasn't a superfluous detail was it, even if my relocation about Simon Moran buying the club in part because of the increased crowds, the fact is he didn't buy his controlling stake in Warrington until June 2004, they had a poor season finishing in 8th (incidentally, two places below another team whose name begins with W!) and the fact is they had already seen huge increases in their crowd numbers! Yes, I know they got the CC semi... before you tell me!'" It does seem a very co-incidental use of language does it not. And it is telling that you are still addressing the issue over superfluous details regarding a joke, yet cant even attempt to address any of the other issues brought up
So they did have on the field success, did invest in the squad, and did invest in marketing and it wasnt solely down to their move. Glad we got that sorted, now what was your point again? that my little joke about a naked indian guy shouldnt have included Simon Moran? fair enough, but as we have already noted, it shouldnt have included a naked indian guy either so maybe we shouldnt deconstruct jokes as they arent expressions of fact.
Quote Now, your point about investing in the squad and marketing are all true and that has stopped the people that turned up buggering off again but Wakefield under AG, while not investing heavily in the squad yet (why would he... he, like Simon Moran, is a very successful business man and therefore not stupid!) he has publicly said he has the funds to inject into Wakefield to spend up to the full cap amount. As for marketing then this is where he and Simon Moran have loads of experience and things in common, they are great marketeers. Promotions, newspaper ads, radio ads and of course two TV ads at peak viewing time! They have an current season average of 6800 ish in SL and haven't had to resort to giving bucket-loads of tickets away.
The more I think about, the similarity's between Warrington 2004 and Wakefield 2011 are uncanny, albeit AG paid less money for his shares!'" Yeah, other than Warrington were successful on the field in 2003, that they didnt go into administration at the beginning of the season, had a decent squad put together, actually had their stadium built, had a higher attendance anyway but there names do both begin with W so I guess that is similar
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"Wakefield have a better on field record over the SL era than Cas, never been relegated and have an average finishing position of 8th to Cas's 9th I think. '"
[size=150SL Regular Rounds Comparison: [/size1996 to 2011 inclusive
=#0000BFCastleford (13 seasons + current) - Average Finishing Position 8.31
Played 358, Won 150, Drawn 13, Lost 195, Pts For 7867, Pts Agst 9180, (Avg Scr 22-26), Comp Pts 313, 44%
Total Home Attendances - 1,229,436 (179 fixtures) Avg - 6,868
=#0000BFWakefield (12 seasons + current) - Average Finishing Position 9.33
Played 347, Won 125, Drawn 4, Lost 218, Pts For 7490, Pts Agst 9632, (Avg Scr 22-2icon_cool.gif, Comp Pts 248*, 36%
* After applying 6 point competition deduction for Salary Cap breach (2 - 2001) and for entering administration (4 - 2011)
Total Home Attendances - 879,703 (171 fixtures) Avg - 5,144
[size=150SL Era - Play Offs:[/size 1998 to 2010 inclusive
=#0000BFCastleford: Qualified For Play-Offs 4 times
Played 6, Won 2, Drawn 0, Lost 4, Pts For 83, Pts Agst 128, (Avg Scr 14-21), Average Attendance (All Venues) 12,042. 33% W W L L L L
=#0000BFWakefield: Qualified For Play-Offs 2 times
Played 3, Won 1, Drawn 0, Lost 2, Pts For 58, Pts Agst 61, (Avg Scr 19-20), Average Attendance (All Venues) 10,246. 33% W L L
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