Vickery was the club taking a flyer on a bloke who came over for a trial and would likely have been on peanuts in terms of salary.

Achurch was the result of the club actually scouting him and deciding to offer him a long-term contract on by all accounts decent wedge.

I'd be more disappointed in the latter not working out than the former.

If Achurch is selected over Keinhorst, the world's gone mad.

One's a smart rugby player, the other is just a big fairy.

Keinhorst is Leeds's player of the year IMO and it would be madness if Achurch is selected in his place.

Madness is what we do this season. Be prepared.

If Strongbow Dark Fruit's is your fancy rumours of £2.40 a pint for the pre-season Friendly in Feb.
I can already feel my head hurting on Sunday if that's true.

You're right the recent attitude is completely different to the one we saw earlier on, especially in the May fixtures and the team deserves some credit for that. Though with the way this season has gone I just worry that the unorganised Leeds that don't work for each other are going to turn up and make the middle 8s harder than it needs to be.

In better news Leeds have announced that we've sold our entire allocation so the team will have plenty of support!

That's great news for our depleted bank account



You can still turn up and pay on the day too. If you're not in the allocated stands, away support tend to congregate to the right of the main stand on the terracing.

Fan zone including kids rides, bouncy castle ale and bbq will be open from 12

Ale, BBQ and a bouncy castle? That sounds like a winning combination

.

I'm one of Keinhorst's biggest fans on here and I'm happy to see Achurch leaving but I'd still go for Achurch for this particular fixture. If we were playing Hudds away, or if we needed one of those two to start the game at 2nd row then I'd go Keinhorst. But to come off the bench after 30/40 mins against a part time Championship team that won't have the same level of fitness and not use to the speed of a SL team who will probably have the lions share of field position then I'd go Achurch as he could do more damage attacking the edge IMO. Keinhorst would come on and as always be solid as rock in defence but he isn't used much in attack when he does play 2nd row. We've got enough work horses in the back row for this particular match/opponent with JJB, Delaney and Ablett, don't think we really need another.

Purely a horses for courses selection.

keinhorst for this one makes far more sense. Galloway and Garbutt, Delany Singleton, and even JJB now for all their pros and cons, they are head down up the middle runners. Ablett and Ferres both have good hands, but again, both big lads. Cuthbertson too, great hands but big and slow.

Fev, even at best, arent going to defend like a top SL side. Regardless of the quality, as a style, they arent going to defend in that style, it would be suicide for them to try. Physically they are outmatched in too many areas for them to rely on holding players up, winning the wrestle, getting 3 or 4 players in to every tackle and grinding the result away from leeds. They can't fight leeds in a territory battle and win, they can't rely on their defence to keep leeds out for two or three sets, they can't just hold them out and hope the last tackle play is poor, and they can't be starting all their sets in their own ten and working their way out.

Fev will need to be up and in leeds face, disrupting them, knocking them out of rhythm and hoping that they can force enough errors, force enough loose ball to keep leeds away from their line. That creates space, and what space needs is speed and with Achurch instead of Keinhorst that pack has zero speed.

Achurch it is then.

God bless Brian Mcdermott.

I don't even understand why Keinhorst's place is up for debate, as many has said he has been our most consistent performer. If we put reputations out the window then he would be starting in front of Ablett or Ferres, never mind worrying about his bench spot.

He has been one of our most consistent performers this year, mostly starting at centre. This situation is for a 2nd row to come on after 30/40 mins against a tiring part time Championship team.

Like I said before, if it was Hudds away or even for one of them to start the game tomorrow then I'd go Keinhorst......but that's not the scenario. More ideal for a flat track bully in attack than a defensive rock to come on mid game.

But why is he only being considered for a bench spot?
He has been more solid in defence than Ferres and especially ablett, who would both usually offer more in attack (as a second row) but haven't shown it this year enough to warrant keeping their starting place.
If Mac was more ready to drop the 'big name' players, we wouldn't have seen so many below par performances from our supposedly star players this year.

Well Ferres has made over 100m most of his games this year which Keinhorst simply wouldn't do at 2nd row by a distance. Ablett granted but he's missed a lot with injury and clearly wasn't fit on his previous return. He does have credit in the bank, which TBF some will scoff at but the same was said for Hall coming straight back in for Handley but that went ok. Also in a team that lost several leaders last year, Ablett is a much more experienced head than Keinhorst, who whilst a good performer is pretty quiet on the pitch and more of a follower than a leader.

Both also have more size than Keinhorst. Let's be honest with his attack when playing SECOND ROW, it's not like he makes loads of metres and attracts defenders (don't confuse his attack at centre with his attack when playing 2nd row and say they're similar positions, they're different positions and the difference can be noticeable). Very much like Delaney, the attraction of his selection at 2nd row is mostly about defence/effort......for this particular game I think attack is more needed from the bench.

I think Keinhorst should be in. But the comment about about our most consistent performer only highlights how fickle and to be fair stupid Leeds fans are. He has had about four good games this year, yet still there is quite a few fans that dine out on it months later. He has been no more consistent than other single player this year. However, to highlight just how poor we are, he should still be in ahead of others.

Keinhorst should be in with a good chance of our player of the season.

Maybe that does show how poor and inconsistent others have been, but so be it.

Even if you think keinhorst's attack at second row isn't as affective as when he's playing centre, and even if you think we need impact around 30-40 mins and keinhorst isn't that sort of player, that's fair enough. But to think achurch WILL bring you an attacking threat and impact off the bench- I cannot agree with that at all. I would say we don't have that player available you are after, rather than look to achurch. He bottles every opportunity he gets, which keinhorst certainly does not. It can't be great for keinhorst being one of the most consistent performers this season, yet seeing that lump achurch picked over him. I hope he does get POTY, its probably his one chance to ever get an achievement like that, and he's one of only a few that's deserved it.

Keinhorst in.

It's comments like this that gets people's backs up with you Gotcha. You come on and make out you're more rugby educated and savy than others. People give their opinions and thoughts but you call them stupid! Whilst Jimmy hasn't been a game changer, he's been the one to put his body week after week when others went missing. This stands out for people in a struggling team.

Just ask yourself sometimes why people have go's at you so often. You're no better than the rest of us. Even with your 'in the know' information you're still watching from the stands and commenting on here.

People on high horses are more likely to be knocked off

Just to be clear mate, I have no emotion whatsoever to what people think. But what is making out more educated by saying what I said? I am interested to know why you didn't quote the rest of the post but just one line? The point is clear, it was the word consistent, he has been no more consistent than any other player this season. For a start, Garbutt must have had at least double figures more consistently better games than him.

The point about fickle and stupid is that this is what always comes out with Leeds fans. It wasn't personal to the person who posted. But a couple of good games and you are suddenly the bee's knees, but player B puts in a couple of bad ones and he will never be forgiven. Case in point Achurch, fickle is the nearest match to certain posters.

This is a message board, with differing opinions, if you don't like that then just stay off it, then offence isn't taken.

He doesn't offer as many meters as some of the bigger back rowers granted, but I do think he offers as much as any back rower we have with ball in hand, both linking in the line and in beating the man in front of them (this season at least).
We should have 4 props playing and a big back 3 so meters shouldn't be too hard to come by anyway.

What has been impressing me about Keinhorst this season is his ability to read an attack in defence and effort to prevent tries. He is often the first to react to a break and does his fair share of cleaning up loose balls as well.
Hopefully we won't need plays like that against fev but better safe than sorry imo.

I think he probably deserves it at this point in the year, but I doubt he will get it.
Many of the more committed supporters will remember his efforts through the year, but I think the average fan will pick a player who stands out more, possibly Watkins if his recent form continues, despite his below par performances earlier.
On top of that, he certainly isn't one of Mac's 'favourites' and(as some have suggested) may find himself out of the team.

IMO this game is going to be a bit harder than most on here suggest for the simple reason that both teams have not played for 2 weeks. The week off will be a great leveller and where we could have expected Fev to fall off in the last 20 under normal circumstances, the fact that we are in play off rugby and 2 rested teams will make it harder than if this was a normal mid season game.
I still expect Leeds to win but it will not be at a cantor. Leeds best chance is to start quickly and get a score or two ahead early on. Hopefully they will not then relax and try to defend a lead. i don't see this being more than a 12 -18pt margin but with Leeds of 2016 who knows

in red hot weather against part timers fitness will tell. tight for a while but Leeds by plenty.

You condescending so-and-so. The reason I quoted that one line is because that's the one you call people stupid!! Yes it's a message board where people have opinions so why do you feel you can slate other people's (calling them stupid for thinking Jimmy has been consistent) but if anyone says anything about you you get all angry. And don't tell me you aren't and you don't care what people say because the amount of arguments you get into show you do.

The same way you want to be able to say your piece, let people say there's. I'm an educated bloke (who has never met you, wouldn't want to and therefore am not your mate) and I can see all sides of arguments. To come out and say your point about Garbutt us fair enough and warranted. But what isn't is calling people fickle and stupid for theirs. THAT IS MY POINT!! You're an absolute hypocrite!!!!